Heidemarie Sequenz, a member of the of the Legislative Assembly of Vienna, Austria, and also the speaker for mobility and city planning, covered a range of topics including Austria's relations with the Kurdistan Region, development, business and trade, immigration during an interview with Rudaw's Nwenar Fatih in Erbil, Kurdistan Region on October 15, 2024.
Sequenz said the Chamber of Commerce in Vienna gets “ten phone calls a day from Austrian companies who would like to come and invest in Kurdistan.” The MP also discussed ways the region could address global warming like with bike routes. “This is safe. This is a nice city. You don't have to be worried. You don't have to be worried about your investment,” she added.
Sequenz, a Green Party member, emphasized that jobs are at the core of many issues facing Europe like migration and immigration. “Austria and Germany are the only countries where the procedure for seeking asylum is conformed with EU laws,” she said.
Below is the transcript of the interview with Sequenz, edited for clarity.
Rudaw: Welcome.
Thank you for inviting me.
So this Austria Community Centre at University of Kurdistan Hewler (UKH), I know it's important for Kurdistan, but how important is it for Austria?
I think we can always learn from each other, and it has started already. I mean, there has been a student exchange between the University of Leoben, which is a city about two and a half hours south of Vienna, and they are really world-known, famous for graduating experts that are really the best in the world in building railway tunnels, street tunnels, and so forth. Their focus is on real solutions in green technology. I've heard that the University of Kurdistan-Hewler [UKH] also has a strong focus on environmental studies and that students from all over Iraq come and study here. I think this is a very strong common asset that we have.
And so, literally, how this center and exchange and expertise, how this is going to work between the Kurdistan region and Austria?
So far, as I said, there was or is even an exchange of students. Altogether, 20 Iraqi students from Erbil have gone to Leoben. And starting next year, 25, there's a program, a master program that started, and students can actually apply for it right now, well, we hope that this is like the beginning and that this spreads into other areas like people coming and teaching at the university. Maybe not for a year, but giving guest lectures, cultural exchanges, and so forth.
The relationship politically between Kurdistan and Austria is actually very good. But on the other hand, we don't see this similar strength when it comes to other sectors. I don't mean politically, when it comes to business, when it comes to culture. Why?
Actually, there are quite a few Austrian companies that have invested here in Kurdistan, starting with Rauch. They're producing fruit juice. Another company that builds fire trucks. I mean, I was just talking to the representative for the Chamber of Commerce. And she says she gets like ten phone calls a day from Austrian companies who would like to come and invest in Kurdistan.
This is a very good start. So the interest is there, politically, there's good relations. You are in Kurdistan now and you know about Kurdistan, also of course you know about Austria. How can Austria and Kurdistan develop their relations more?
I think a good start was that President Nechirvan Barzani visited our president this July, only two months ago, and also the minister of foreign affairs. And we finally have an embassy again in Baghdad since last year. So, I mean, all these are signs on moving forward. And I think the most important thing is to transport that image that this is safe here. Because people in Europe have all kinds of ideas what's happening in the Middle East, particularly now. And I think this is why it's important that people literally come and see. This is safe. This is a nice city. You don't have to be worried. You don't have to be worried about your investment. And to bring people here to see for themselves. This is what I meant with these exchanges.
You are a member of the Green Party and according to UN's report, Iraq is one of the top five countries affected by climate change. How can Austria support Iraq and the Kurdistan Region in this regard?
I mean, definitely with know-how. I mentioned a few projects that we did. The Green Party is a small party. We had 14 percent in the election, the last ones. Even though we got so much done, and I mentioned those, that it can be done in terms of mobility, in terms of urban planning. I mean, I haven't seen a single bike route in Erbil. I think this knowledge is kind of something that can be siphoned off into Kurdistan.
You've been here in the summer.
Yes, I've seen hardly any solar here in a country where the sun is blasting. And I think probably as long as gasoline is so cheap, then maybe it doesn't make sense to invest. I don't know, but this would be something that I would do straight away.
Also, due to the economic and political situation in this region of the world, we have climate change again in countries like Iraq, Syria, Iran, and Turkey. Kurds in these countries are migrating to Austria and other European countries, which is a problem now in the EU. So currently, what's the immigration policy of Austria?
I mean Austria itself doesn't have an immigration policy. I mean, Austria is a member of the European Union. And well, we now have the Dublin Agreement, which is not working; I can tell you straight away, which means that the person has to apply for a visa in the very country the person enters. So coming into Europe, this would be, I don't know, from Bulgaria, Romania. But this is not where they're staying. They want to go to Austria and Germany. And this is actually the problem. Most European, EU, countries have stopped a legal procedure, and Austria and Germany are the only countries where the procedure for seeking asylum is conformed with EU laws. All the other countries don't do this anymore. Like Hungary says, “I'd rather pay a fine than have any immigrants here.” So the problem is now that all this is coming towards two countries, and what we see is that in all these countries, right-wing parties are coming into power. They have been the strongest party in the last election in Austria. They gained a lot of votes in provincial elections in Germany. This is due to the high immigration rate. And it is a big issue.
So, somehow, immigration is changing the political map?
Oh yeah, definitely.
Domestically in European countries?
Yes, definitely, towards the right.
Now, there's a rise of the right wings, but yet we can say that European countries mainly are led by social democrats and, you know, we can still say that. Are they taking any actions to change the course, to confront this problem, and at least to do something to stay in power?
I mean, first of all, I don't quite agree with all this. Like if you look at Italy, right-wing party in power, Orban, right-wing party in power. I mean, Poland now has a different government, but what I see is not convincing me, and they cannot agree on a common policy. What I see happening is that everybody retreats to their own country, and they think that they can build a fence around the country and keep people from coming. Of course, this doesn't work. So the EU, I think, is in big trouble now because they cannot agree on something that works. And the first thing that I would do is that you - and this is where this university comes in - that you educate people and that you get people to stay in their country, that they have perspective here.
So somehow now we talked about how UN now regarding issues like the Middle East, Ukraine is not functional anymore. So the European Union as an institution, the EU is not functioning when it comes to immigration in this regard.
Yes, yes.
So every country is going back to their own borders.
Yeah, let's build our little fence, yeah.
Yeah, that is quite a problem. The University of Kurdistan (UKH) and other universities, actually they are preparing an elite youth of Kurdistan, very talented, ready to work, with really great standards and understanding and up-to-date information. You're familiar with that, but there's a problem with creating jobs in this part of the world, including here, I mean, Kurdistan. As Austria, can you help Kurdistan in this regard to find jobs?
Well, to create jobs in Europe right now, we have a different situation. We don't have people to work. After the pandemic, it seemed like people disappeared. And a lot of migrant workers like from Hungary and Poland, they went back and they never came back.
Even in the United States. Now, the problem is no one works.
I've heard that the main thing here in Iraq is to employ people because the unemployment rate is so high, but I think it also has to do with how the population develops. I think, how many people live now in Iraq?
Well, we don't have exact data, but we have estimations - around 45 million.
Yeah, and I think it kind of exploded. So this is something I think that has to be tackled first and create meaningful jobs and not just something that, you know, you give people a little bit of money so they can hardly survive, but they are not doing anything that is fulfilling.
Yeah, they call that here “the convincing unemployment” - it's that you don't really produce anything, but you just have a job, or it's called a job, it's not really a job because you don't produce anything. It's not productive. You just go somewhere, you stay there for a few hours and at the end you're on a payroll… So you mentioned that people who went back to Poland and Hungary didn't come back after the pandemic.
That was my impression because all of a sudden people have disappeared.
So you mentioned that people who went back to Poland and Hungary didn't come back after the pandemic.
That was my impression because all of a sudden people have disappeared.
So Austria now needs workers.
Yes, but we need workers that are qualified.
How is the government now dealing with that?
There is one scheme. It's called "Rot-Weiss-Rot-Karte." That's the flag, red, white, red. It's also not really working. I would prefer that Austria turns to a policy like Canada that picks the people. They say, we need IT, we need nurses, we need this. Germany is doing that now, too. They are actually working on a law now. It will be passed in the parliament soon. They will make it easier compared to now because it's impossible now for people to immigrate legally into-
Do you think that with the rise of the right-wings in Austria, it will be possible to pass such a law in the parliament?
I think it could be passed, but there is opposition from different sides, like NGOs. They say everybody who is entitled to asylum should get asylum. Of course, everybody coming from Syria and Afghanistan is entitled to asylum. But I think there are 1 million Syrian people now in Germany. It's not just the refugees; it's the families that are following. In Vienna, we have 300 refugees' kids coming every month from Syria.
Do you have any numbers about Iraq?
No, I don't think we have a lot of people coming from Iraq, mostly from Turkey.
With the rise of the right-wings in Austria, what will be changed mainly?
Nothing. They are not interested in a solution. They are not interested in solving this immigration problem because they feed on it. If this disappears, they disappear.
So you expect that this problem will stay as it is?
I'm not very optimistic, to be honest.
Was migration the main driver that made people vote for the right-wings, or were there other reasons, economically?
I would say there were two things. It's not that poor people vote for the far right. It's people who have achieved something and are afraid of losing their wealth. The reason could be immigrants, the reason could be an economic crisis, but it's that fear of losing what you've got that makes a lot of people vote for the far right.
Why can't the social democrats and the central parties convince those people?
If I could answer this question, I would be a hero. Sometimes, even considering the last provincial domestic elections in Germany, the right-wings won in a region with very few immigrants.
What is the driver that people are voting for the right-wing in Europe? Is it only migration?
To a large part, yes, but again, it's that fear of losing what you have. I was in Thuringen, in Erfurt, one of the most beautiful cities I've been to. Everything seems perfect, yet people still vote for a right-wing party that won't do anything for them. It's fear, not rationality.
What do you say about Slavoj Zizek’s perspective on the rise of the right-wing?
I agree to some extent. The rise of the right-wings doesn't mean they have solutions. It indicates that the left, the center, and the social democrats have failed in their policies and promises.
Isn't it that people are afraid of losing something and don't trust the other parties anymore?
Yes, that's part of it. For example, Vienna has been run by the Social Democrats for about 100 years, and it remains one of the most livable cities in the world. Yet people are scared when they see young Afghans hanging out at metro stations.
How do the media play a role in this?
To a large degree, the media pushes this fear. But social media, especially TikTok, plays a big role, particularly among younger people.
How are your connections and relations with the Kurdish community in Vienna?
Very close. I have been connected with Kurdish associations for years and have been an election observer in the Kurdish region in Turkey.
Thank you very much for this opportunity.
It was a pleasure to have this conversation with you.
