“The most important issue is how we create and support what’s called the green, sustainable economy. The green and sustainable economy – this is the concrete base for the Iraqi NDC,” Jassim al-Falahi, undersecretary of Iraq’s Ministry of Environment and Health, told Rudaw’s Bestoon Othman in an interview conducted on June 2.
NDC’s, Nationally Determined Contributions, are plans for how governments will meet their emissions targets under the climate agreement, which has set a goal of limiting global warming to below two degrees Celsius, compared to pre-industrial levels.
Investment in solar energy will play a large role in Iraq’s plan, with projects like converting all government offices to solar energy, Falahi explained.
Creating a sustainable economy will require drastic changes. Iraq is heavily dependent on oil. “Really it’s not an easy job,” said Falahi.
Rudaw: Thank you very much for joining us, Dr. Jassim.
Jassim al-Falahi: Thank you very much for the opportunity to attend this interview and in order to convey some things to my people and Iraqi as a whole and to our people in Kurdistan.
I’m going to ask you questions about the content of the conference you’re having here in Erbil, but before that, I’d like to ask a question which is the question of the day. Two days ago, in Kurdistan Region of Iraq, on the borders with Turkey, there were pictures and reports that trees were cut by people affiliated with the Turkish army and they were taken to Turkey and sold. What is your point, what’s your status as the Iraqi government when it comes to destroy the forests and the jungles of Kurdistan because of the operations of the Turkish army against the PKK [Kurdistan Workers’ Party] inside the Iraqi lands?
Of course, as you know, all of us we are against the intervention in the interior affairs of our country, as we respect the interior affairs of our neighbours. We hope that the neighbours should respect our internal affairs. This is the responsibility of the Iraq government.
Regarding cutting the trees and all these actions against the forest, as you know, we are working from the environmental view. We are against this action and it has a very bad impact on the environment as well. As you know, now we are working hard with the board of the conservation of the environment, saving the environment in the Kurdistan Government. We are have a very good cooperation and collaboration in order to spread the green area and encouragement of the forests.
I think this action will work against us. And I think there is [a statement from] both the ministry of agriculture in Baghdad and ministry of agriculture in Kurdistan government, they have a very clear statement regarding this issue.
How about your ministry, are you going to take any action against this or do you have any plan to recover the forests in these areas or to compensate, like creating new jungles and forests in other places of Kurdistan Region?
Of course, we’ve had a discussion for the last two days, when we are in Erbil with Dr. Abdulrahman [Sidiq], the head of the board of the environment here in the Kurdistan government. And we have a very good understanding, both of us, toward the – we should work against all of these actions that have a very bad impact on the Iraqi environment as well. Now we are working against the climate change. And the trees and the forest are one of the most important solutions for the bad impact of the climate change.
Let’s come to the NDCs. Tell me, what is NDC?
NDC, it’s a document, national Iraqi document, it means Nationally Determined Contributions. It means a voluntary contribution of the Iraqi people, of the Iraqi government toward the climate change. As you know, there is successive increase in the temperature, and there successive impact of the increase in the temperature on the health and the life of the people. As you know, now we have more than a million plants and animals that are under danger because of the impact of the climate change. Iraq is classified as one of the most vulnerable countries, one of the five most vulnerable countries.
What are the other four?
Any countries in the African region, like Sudan, Somalia, and others. They are really highly affected by the climate change. As you know, we have serious challenges in my country, representing with the huge pressure on the water security. As you know, ninety percent of our water originates from our neighbors, from Turkish side and Iranian side. And as you know, they have many projects there, especially a new dam, what’s called the [Southeastern Anatolia Project, GAP] project, which includes more than 12 dams. And, you know, these activities will affect the water resources of my country.
Just one parenthesis. Do you think Turkey and Iran are really in of the water? That’s why they are building these dams and it has nothing to do politically with Iraq and Syria? Or do you think these two countries have an ambition and intention to force Iraq using the water resources they have?
I think all of us, we read about the water war previously and, I don’t know exactly what are the aims of all these activities. They say that this is some sort of sustainable development for their countries. But you know, what’s called the trans-boundary, we have trans-boundary water resources. And I think there is an international legal umbrella regarding what should we have from this water.
Do we have water security in Iraq?
No. And one of the most important issues that we have and are focusing in the INDC, you asked me about the INDC, one of the most important issues was the water resources. You know, we have negotiation delegates headed by his excellency Mr. [Fuad Hussein] of foreign affairs, and also we have a part of this –
To negotiate with Turkey and Iran?
Yes.
So, about the water security – the reason is the policies of the neighbouring countries or it’s that we don’t have our own water resources or we don’t have a true and right administration of water resources in Iraq? Which one is the main reason?
Yes. That’s a very good question. Thank you very much. I think that the internal sources for water, internally inside our country, do not exceed more than six to eight percent. Most of them, more than 90 percent of our water resources come from trans-boundary, from abroad, mainly from the Turkish side. And as you know, we have successive increase in the population, we have about three percent fertility rate. And this means that one million people of our people each year. And it means that much more is needed for water, for food, for other activities and services.
Whether this is a policy from our neighbors… they should put in their consideration that the drought, it means killing of the Iraqi people.
Who else should be involved in administration of water resources, other than the ministry of water resources?
All sectors. All sectors are responsible, in addition to the NGOs, in addition to the people who are active in the society. It is not a sectarian issue. The water resources are a very important issue for the life and the health of the people. And I think the other things, which might affect mainly, in addition to minimizing our resources, is the pollution, water pollution is a very important issue. And you know, it might change the quality of water. You remember what has happened in al-Basra in 2018 and their consequences, socially, from the health point of view, and also from the security issue.
We’re going to come to those. But, back to NDC. The name of your gathering today here in Erbil is intention of Iraq, what’s the intention of Iraq. What’s the level of the intention of Iraq to contribute to the Paris agreement? What do you see?
What I want to explain, the climate change is a serious issue. And you know, especially in the new American administration, President Biden has a great interest with climate change, because they know very well that the climate change, it impacts on all fields of our life. The Paris agreement was very huge. I represent that the world before the Paris agreement is different completely from the world after the Paris agreement. The main spirit of the Paris agreement was encouraging countries to make some sort of diversity to their economy and make diversification to their energy.
And Iraq is ready for this?
Yes, of course. We should –
I know we should, but can we? That’s the question.
Yes. We have very good steps for that. As you know, there is what’s called the White Paper. We need a new mentality to deal with our Iraqi economy. We should not depend on oil production as the main source.
Is Iraq on the right track now?
We try to put it on the right track. And really it’s not an easy job. We are working with our ministerial level, we have a high authority of Iraqi climate change, and high climate change authority at the level of deputy ministers, and also we have the national committee for climate change. In addition to cooperation, the agency for the environment in Kurdistan government, they are part of our climate change authority because they are a part of this. And now the NDC – it will include all the Iraqi sectors, including the Kurdistan Region.
In one of the meetings today, I heard one of the participants talking about a report released by PIN, People In Need organization, stating that at least 80 to 90 percent of the population is willing to participate in renewable energy projects, they’re happy with this. But what that participant raised was the question that there is no one willing to invest in this. So how are you planning to bring more people, more investment into renewable energy projects and help to work for the objectives of the Paris climate agreement?
One of the most important targets and the objective issue for NDC is encouraging the engagement of the private sector. And you know many workshops have been done with the Iraqi business council and the commercial council and with the trade committee and Kurdistan Region and Iraq. And really we reached to the point that we encourage those people to [get] involved in the investment, in the –
Are there investors willing to invest?
Yes, they start.
Local or international ones?
Local and international. This is the beginning and there is very good work in Kurdistan Region, Mosul and the reconstruction activity on the green building, also in al-Anbar province, and Najaf. We start, either with the cooperation of the private sector and sometimes with the cooperation and the support of the international community through the United Nations organization.
There was a meeting between the Iraqi oil minister and Total Energy for producing renewable energy. What’s the point of that? Are you involved in that project?
His excellency, the minister of oil really has a very good mentality regarding the impact of climate change on the future of the Iraqi economy. So this is the beginning. In order to make some sort of adaptation toward the international criteria that has been included in the Paris agreement. As you know, the Republic of Iraq has ratified the Paris agreement, so there is some sort, what you call the government commitment. So we start to encourage the people and the private sector, also the governmental sector too, to invest in the renewable energy, represented by a solar station. And we have good steps – Ministry of Electricity, Ministry of Oil – and I think this is the beginning.
We have also another project that we use solar energy as the main source of energy on all governmental offices, all over the country. And, you know, this is very important regarding –
To be funded by?
Funded by the United Nations.
The United Nations?
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Is it through the international bank or…?
No. You know, World Bank, the international bank, we have what’s called the GEF [Global Environment Facility] and they support many environmental projects in my country.
This project is about to start?
Yes.
Is it for the whole of Iraq, including Kurdistan Region?
Inshallah [God willing].
All of the governmental offices will have solar energy?
Solar energy. Because most of the people, most of the employees, they are working from 8 to 3, and this is in daylight. ‘Til now, we can use direct solar in the usual day activity. I think it will represent a huge reduction of the power from the national grid.
Is there a timeline for this project, to start, to complete?
I think within one to two years it will see the light.
Back to the NDC and the role of Iraq in the Paris project. What are concrete projects that you’re going to have, in accordance to a schedule? Because I hear some projects in Basra and different areas. Can you tell us a little bit more about it?
The most important issue is how we create and support what’s called the green, sustainable economy. The green and sustainable economy – this is the concrete base for the Iraqi NDC. I think there are very good steps in the Ministry of Electricity and the Ministry of Oil, for two reasons. One – using the solar energy station, which is the responsibility of the Ministry of Electricity.
Where is that?
Yes, yes, we’ve started. We have a project in Nasiriyah and we have another project in Baghdad. And yesterday, one of the most important decisions of the Iraqi ministerial council is to do a contract with one of the Chinese companies.
For?
For 1,000 [MW] from solar energy.
And where?
I think in the southern area of Iraq. I think in al-Nasiriyah.
There are not any projects in Kurdistan. Why?
We start, this is the beginning, I think. This is the beginning, because you should put in your consideration the huge deficit of energy and its successive increase. Nasiriyah is one of the most hot areas in the world, not only in Iraq. And I think we should pay some specific attention to the suffering of the people there.
You told me important stuff about the projects. But do you have any data you can tell me? Like the amount of energy for electricity needed in Iraq, and how much do we produce today, and what sorts of energy we use to produce electricity. And in 2025, what’s going to change, how much of this is going to be from renewable, sustainable energy resources?
Yes. As you know, we have successive increase of the population and successive increase in the temperature. So it means we need much more energy each year. And I think now, we need at least 24,000 [megawatts]. And I think what has been done until now is about 19,000 [megawatts]. So there is some sort of division. We have a program for supplying the electricity in Iraq –
And the 19k we produce, what’s the source?
Of course we have many stations. Most of them, they are depending on crude oil as a main source of energy.
For 2025, how much of this is going to be produced through renewable energy?
I think renewable energy, they have a very good percentage and supplying the people. And I think the only solution, especially in the far area –
Do you have any number in mind?
I think I can supply to you after we finish the final study with the World Bank. We have very good work with the World Bank. They support us, especially in the field of capacity building and many researchers they are working hard in order to achieve the final data regarding energy. We have the national strategy for energy as well.
Let’s talk a bit about the environment in Kurdistan Region of Iraq. The environment of this land was attacked, was destroyed during the 1980s due to the war against the Kurds in this area, especially Halabja. Chemical weapons were used, forbidden weapons were used. This was also accepted by the Iraqi government that this genocide took place and such forbidden weapons were used. But until today, there is not any sort of compensation to these areas, especially in Halabja. There are new generations, new babies born misshaped because of the impact of the weapons on the area, on the environment of the area. Does your ministry have any strategy to try to rehabilitate the environment in these areas affected by the war in the 1980s?
I think what happened in Halabja was some sort of a genocide, as you know. And the people, they are really suffering a lot. Not only the people and their life and their generation, but also the environment as well. And our ministry, ministry of environment, they are working hard with the agency of environment in the Kurdistan Region in order to rehabilitate, especially in the area that has been polluted with the chemical weapons and the chemical elements. We are working for years and years in order to make the final cleaning of this area. As you know, these chemicals that have been used, they have accumulative process. So it might represent or it might stay for a long time –
Still, really, are there really ongoing projects on this? Because when you go to –
No, no, we are working hard, yes, we are working hard. Our employees, and our officials, our experts, they are working for a long time in Halabja. And we have a department called the department for the chemical and the polluted areas. They are in high coordination –
When did you last visit Halabja, personally?
Really I didn’t find the time –
I think it would be great if you visit there.
Yes, of course.
Because when you go there –
I want to see Halabja.
When you go there and when you talk to the local people, they don’t see the help of the Iraqi government to rehabilitate their lives and the environment around them, because they feel that there is no one caring about them.
No. I think we are caring about them. They are part of our people, you know. And their health, it’s of very high concern. I’m a medical doctor and I understand very well their suffering. Really they are suffering a lot and not only should they be rehabilitated physically, but they should be rehabilitated from the psychological impact. I cannot support them directly, to Halabja or Suliamani or Erbil, you know. From the official side, we support the Ministry of Health. We support them with medical equipment, with the medicine, and also with their budget. And also we are supporting the agency of the environment here.
My final question. There were some reports mentioning that atomic plants are going to be built in Iraq, for peaceful mission. And there were also supports that suggest that some locations were also selected. Is your ministry involved in this process?
Our ministry was… There are some efforts under supervision of his excellency the prime minister in order to find some sort – to substitute the huge deficit in the energy. One of the ideas that has been discussed with his excellency was using the nuclear atoms as a sort of renewable energy. There is really some discussion and there is the commission of nuclear affairs, they are related to the ministerial council –
How about the side which is related to the environment? Because building nuclear plants has many things to do with the environment?
Yes, of course. We are responsible for nuclear radiation protection in my country. We do have some point of view regarding this with special attention –
Is there any progress in that project?
Until now in the primitive stage. Until now there is a study, I think.
Is there any location selected?
Yes, they selected about 20 sites and they can choose between them.
Any of those 20 sites located in Kurdistan Region?
Indeed I don’t know the map of the distribution of this. Until now there is some sort of controversy regarding the use of nuclear power as a source of energy, the nuclear power safety, because now the advanced countries, European countries, they are trying to get rid of the building of –
So as deputy minister of health with the focus on the environment, are you pro-nuclear centres in Iraq or not for energy production?
I think it’s not bad, but I think there is another way to substitute the huge deficit in energy. I think the encouragement of solar energy with wind energy, the use of water dams as a source of energy. It might be a huge investment in this. Nevertheless we can use nuclear power safely to produce, with a high and specific restrictions.
Thank you very much for joining us.
