Professor Michael Gunter discusses modern Kurdistan while in Erbil

Rudaw English sat with Tennessee Technological University Professor Michael Gunter, PhD, to discuss current Kurdish issues on May 27 in Erbil, Kurdistan Region. The US academic is political scientist, researcher and author of several books including his current project entitled ‘Handbook on the Kurds.’

The American recalls his 1993 visit to Iraqi Kurdistan during a KDP congress and the closeness of Jalal Talabani and Masoud Barzani. He notes the enormous progress in the region’s roads and infrastructure especially in the rural Kurdish countryside. Also discussed was the economy and Kurdistan’s protection of religious minorities being a point of leverage.

Gunter says relations between different political groups in Syria like KNC/ENKS and PYD could be improved through diplomacy and renewing the Turkey-PKK peace process. He also cites international reports of Kurds grabbing territory in Rojava as unfavorable internationally. Gunter says Kurds could explore options to the sea through Turkey, Iraq and Jordan.

Rudaw: One of the things that you’ve talked about is parliament and the upcoming referendum. From a Western perspective, is this a necessity for a step toward independence?

I don’t think it is a necessity, but it would help. I’ll tell you what also would help. You are doing tremendous things to help the Christian minorities in the Middle East. I’ve visited IDP camps and Americans, of course, are probably much more religious than Europeans and I think you should emphasize to the United States and your relationship with the US how Kurdistan and the KRG are

aiding the survival of the Christians in the Middle East and that will impress the Americans even more. Americans know this, but they need to know it even more. It certainly impresses me because it would be difficult to find any place else in the Middle East where minorities like that would be taken care of.  

And to that point, in northern Syria, it’s traditionally been a diverse place. There were Christians, ethnic Kurds, Jews, and other groups. But with ISIS and the civil war, some of them have been pushed out. Now, YPG, SDF and these groups have retaken much of the territory. Does this open the possibility for a connection to the Mediterranean which has always been the romantic dream of Kurds?

No, because the Kurds in Syria are landlocked and as they try to form a bridge to the Mediterranean, I would say that’s a bridge too far and maybe the roads aren’t strong enough to do it because of the civil war. But in the long run, the Syrian Kurds are what, 10–11 percent of the Syrian population? You’ll create enemies. If you want a land bridge to the Mediterranean, then it should be done through diplomacy and cooperation with the other people that are not seizing your territory. And your enemies, the Rojava enemies

are making strong points. Even Amnesty International has talked about YPG and abuses against non-Kurdish population, so I think that’s badly exaggerated. But, certainly, if the Rojava is seen as grabbing territory that is historically not Kurdish just because it’s possible now under the conditions of the civil war, in the long run, that will be looked down upon very unfavorably to the Kurds. In the long run, what the KRG and Rojava needs is accessible diplomacy with their neighbors. I’ve always recommended Turkey.

I have a warm spot for Turkey in my heart, which needs some warm spots right now given the situation in Turkey, but of course an amicable divorce with Baghdad would allow the KRG to have a path to the sea through Iraq and also Jordan is there too. And Israel, as you know, is not allowed to say it, but they may be your best friend of all in the Middle East. And through Jordan and into Israel, so there are a lot of other diplomatic options for Kurdistan to diplomatically reach the sea and not be seen as that you’re somehow seizing land in an opportune moment that will in the long run create more problems than they solve.

If the operations in the Raqqa area of northern Syria are successful and it’s liberated from ISIS, and the Kurds in this area want to set up some sort of entity or some kind of self-autonomous zone, do you see the US supporting that in the way they supported a no-fly zone in the 1990s in what helped to lead to the Kurdistan Region?

That is more difficult, because as you know, Turkey is on reasonably friendly relations with the KRG now, so since Turkey is such an important American ally and will continue to be, the US can support the KRG. But as you know, Turkey considers the PYD a mere terrorist extension of PKK, so in the long run, the United States is probably going to pull away from the PYD and support Turkey.

So, there are two major Kurdish political groups in Syria, KNC or ENKS and PYD. Is there any force in the region or anyone that can bring these two groups together for the common good of the Kurdish people and Rojava?

That is almost squaring the circle and I would say I don’t have any good idea about that. We have to realize that there are some major problems between these two groups, and not trying to be too naively moving too far too fast. What I have said several times is that if we managed to get the Turkey-PKK peace process renewed again, that would make relations all round better and would help bring the PYD and KNC relations to a better situation than they are now.

And if we can just coming back to the Kurdistan Region and Erbil … When did you first come to the Kurdistan and can you describe what you see now versus what you saw at that time?

That’s an excellent question. I first came in 1993, I think it was in July or August for the Fourth KDP Congress, and I can remember, I was just 50 feet, maybe closer to Mam Jalal [Talabani] and Masoud Barzani were sitting side by side talking and everything seemed to be going well and then you fell into that civil war and never again have the Kurds have had to learn a bitter lesson from there. My own country as well went through a bitter civil war and 150 years later, we’re still having the memories of that in the United States.

How has Kurdistan changed since then?

When I came here the first time in 1993, I had to fly from Istanbul to Diyabakir (Turkey). And in Diyabakir, I got into a taxi cab and drove for about 100 miles to the border, and picked up my suitcase and went through a gauntlet of Turkish posts to finally cross the border into Kurdistan, where I was met by some KDP representatives in a Toyota Landrover, and we had to go over the most crude

roads. At one we time we had to get out, and I helped push the thing, the Landrover, through a stream of water and eventually we got to Erbil, which looked like a big, overgrown village to me. Today, as you know, Erbil is one of the one of the most modern, progressive looking cities in the Middle East and indeed, as an American, I found some things here that were more modern than in the United States, in Washington or New York.

And, even more impressive though, is the extensive secondary road system you now have. [Yesterday] I took a 15 hour trip through the mountains of Erbil, around the Barzan region yesterday. For 15 hours, wandering the roads with an excellent Kurdish guide who lives here, Stafford Cleary, he knows more about the back roads of Kurdistan than anyone else. I’m trying to get him to write a chapter in my new book by Rutledge Press ‘Handbook on the Kurds.’ Anyway, I was most impressed by the economic infrastructure that has been constructed by the KRG government in the past 20 years. Enormous progress has been made — roads connecting little villages in the past probably that were so isolated, some of these people have probably never came down off the mountain in their entire life. Now, they have cars all over the place, restaurants, little markets to buy food, and even the ecology. I did not see a whole bunch of garbage on the road. I know this is a problem that you have to learn to keep your environment clean, but I saw a clean environment, pristine streams flowing, a lot of economic progress is occurring which I think is accredited to the KRG government.

When people from the outside come to Kurdistan, maybe people for their first time come to Kurdistan, have you talked to these people, do they say similar things when they visit Kurdistan for the first time?

I have not talked to a whole lot of people because not a whole lot of people are coming. Some are coming, but yes, I think the few people I have talked to would agree with me that there are enormous tourism prospects here, but people have been saying this for 20 years. Many people, who come here, seem to just stay in their hotel and don’t get to see some of the things that I saw. Now there are exceptions and there are other people who travel around like me and other people who travel much more than I do so I don’t want to create the wrong impression that I’m the only outsider that’s seen these things. But, still, relatively speaking, there are very few people even among those who come here on business get to travel and see some of these other things

What about the safety in the region when you go through the airport or when you leave the city, do you feel safe when you’re in Kurdistan?

That’s a good question and the answer is yes, amazingly so. I think obviously, the Kurdish Peshmerga and security forces, know their home situation better than say American security people would know. So I feel very comfortable being stopped along the highway for security look over and so forth, because as you know, no American has been killed in the Kurdistan region in 15 years or so since the removal of Saddam Hussein so I feel very secure. And in the city, I just simply cannot believe it, when I see people leave their material

possessions, even money, in the car and walk away and nobody breaks into the car.

I live at a small, rural city in Tennessee, Cookeville and you’d have to be an idiot to leave anything in your car. They’ll break the window and steal it. So the security situation here is very good and I hope that your increasing modernization will not lead to the problems that security in modernization often leads to. I think in the Kurdish culture though, there’s a lot of good in sense to the respect for the property and rights of other people. And again, I think the KRG government has fostered these admirable aspects of the Kurdish culture that people deserve a right to live in security.

One of the steps that the Kurdish government has embraced is this biometric system both for entry and for Peshmerga and for government employees. Are these the correct steps forward in the eyes of the international community, further transparency?

Well, as an older person, I’m computer challenged and I often have problems with these things, but in general, yes. I think that all attempts of modernization devices to encourage better security are looked upon positively in our background help. But I think the

main security success that you have are intelligent people. You know your system, you know who your friends are, you know when there are outsiders who might be suspicious here so I would encourage you to use these modern security devices but only as a secondary device and continue to use the more traditional people intelligence which in the long run seems to work very well for the Kurds. And also, in the long run, the United States have gotten away from this, and we had to go back to more personal intelligence in the United States and not just depend on all these new security devices.

Do you have anything to add?

The thing that I’d like to add is the controversy of my speech at Hewler University. I don’t think that there’s anywhere else in the Middle East, except Israel, where somebody could come here and make some critical comments about the Kurdish government which I made in good will because I’m a friend of the Kurds and want to see intelligent successful independence but be allowed to say these things. And there was nobody dragging me off the stage and I think it’s a credit to the maturity and evolving democracy and freedom of speech in this country that I was allowed to say such things. I am disappointed in the fake news that came out where some news outlets in the KRG Region were saying, were exaggerating the problems that were created by my talk. This is simply not true, as you can see, here we are talking to each other even more.

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