Hoshyar Zebari, an ethnic Kurd who is also Iraq’s foreign minister, says he is still the country’s top diplomat, despite Kurdish disengagement from Baghdad and an acting minister named in his place. In a wide-ranging interview with Rudaw TV, Zebari spoke about the political situation in Baghdad as Iraq teeters toward splintering, whether this is the right time to declare independence and what it would take for the Kurds to remain a part of Iraq. Here is an edited transcript of his comments:
On whether he is still foreign minister of Iraq:
I am still the foreign minister of Iraq. He (Hussein Shahristani) has been appointed as acting (foreign minister). Based on the Iraqi constitution, removing ministers requires parliamentary approval. The prime minister or the council of ministers have no such authority.
About political events in Baghdad, where Salim al-Jabouri’s election as the Sunni speaker of parliament has nudged the thorny process of forming a government one step closer:
The election of the speaker of parliament is a positive sign for the political process to progress. The second step is that the Kurdistan Alliance should nominate its candidate for the presidency.
About the Kurds and their place in the Iraqi constitution:
The constitution is in the interest of the people of Iraq, but it includes lots of interests of the Kurds, too. Kurds and the Kurdish leadership had an authoritative hand in drafting the constitution, so we cannot take the constitution trivially. On the contrary, it’s the guarantor of Kurdish rights until we reach another stage.
Whether the Kurds are boycotting Baghdad:
The decision of the (Kurdish) leadership is to take part in the political process. We have not boycotted the political process. Otherwise, the Kurdish members of parliament would not attend the parliament. Our withdrawal from the cabinet meetings resulted from Prime Minister Maliki's accusations against the Kurdistan Region of harboring IS (Islamic State) and al-Qaeda, and that Erbil has become a haven for terrorists. I personally told Maliki, ‘it’s a shame for you and us that we sit together and still make such accusations against us. For this reason we will not take part (in the government), so that the whole world knows about this.’ It is unacceptable to accuse your partner of terrorism and conspiracies. But we all (Kurdish) ministers united in our stance. We have not boycotted the government; we have only suspended our presence there. In the next step, we might leave the government and submit a mass resignation. Now, there are lots of pressures by the US and others. We have told everyone that we are Peshmergas in Baghdad, and with one phone call from our leadership we pack up and return to Kurdistan.
On which side is is responsible for constitutional violations:
I don't want to accuse one faction only. But since the government is like the father and represents the whole country, it has more responsibility. I like to say honestly that both (KRG and Baghdad) have transgressed (the constitution) if we go into the details. The difference is over the (number of) violations. When the government fails to pay people and provide services for them, it becomes illegitimate. The government is responsible for providing for the security, stability and prosperity of the people -- of the people of Kurdistan, and its allies. That includes paying civil servants and the issue of the Peshmerga budget. When a government does not implement the mentioned obligations, it loses its legitimacy in the eyes of the people. Now, there is a new situation and it cannot be resolved with old methods.
On whether he represents the Kurdish or Iraqi government:
I am a Kurd and representative of Kurdistan, but there (in Baghdad) I represent Iraq, too.
On US influence and opposition to Kurdish independence:
America's influence has changed, but it’s still there because it’s a super power. The US has less influence now. In the past they had 160,000 troops on the ground. Now, they are working through the diplomats and the embassy. For the US, the world and the neighboring countries it’s important that Iraq not be a failed state, because it’s not in anyone's interest. Iraq can stay as a state, but the regions should have more powers, and there should be a government that is not excessively strong. Only then can Iraq be a real federal state. The constitution grants the Sunnis the right to have their own region. We need to resolve this new situation.
On the Kurds declaring independence:
Currently, the Kurdish leadership is working on two tracks. One is to give another chance to the Iraqis, to want to build a new Iraq based on constitution, coexistence and real partnership. This is our last attempt at forming a new government that would eliminate marginalization and injustice. If that happens, then it would lead to a new situation. If it relapses into the former situation, Iraq would no longer be a state. If Iraq is unable to resolve the issues, then we take the other decision. Historically, there are strong and deep ties between the Kurds and Shiites, and now they are at risk. It’s easy to declare independence. But before everything, Kurds must be united in their stance. There are differences – as is clear. We need to consider the neighbors’ moves: will they block the borders or not; and then you need international recognition. Turkey has changed. We need to be patient and careful. We progressed very well since 1991, and then after the fall of the regime. There is no black and white in politics. We should take everything into account. The US officially does not support Kurdistan’s independence, the Turkish position officially may be different, and Iran opposes it. But we all commit to the decisions made by the people of Kurdistan. It should be a studied decision that will carry us to our goal. The stage is very sensitive and ripe. We are (Kurdistan) not an Island. We have influence and whatever we do should be aimed at consolidating what we have. We have made lots of sacrifices. Desire is one thing and pragmatism is something else. This would involve lots of risks. My view is, such things should not be rushed and need scrutiny.
About Kurdish-Shiite relations:
A number of (Maliki’s) State of Law people have tried to turn the issues into an Arab-Kurdish matter. Shiite-Kurdish interests are not finished. Since the foundation of the KDP (Kurdistan Democratic Party) the brotherhood of Kurds and Arabs has been of much importance. We value that. Even if Kurdistan goes independent, it still needs Iraq and Baghdad. You can't sleep peacefully if you have IS (Islamic State) – as well as others -- as your neighbor. There are attempts by IS and (our) neighbors to disturb Kurdistan's situation.
On the recent overt Israeli support for Kurdish independence:
The Israeli matter does not benefit us much. Other countries have agreements with Israel, but it’s different for Kurds because of their political geography.
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