By Kemal Avci
Sırrı Sureyya Onder, co-chairman of the People’s Democratic Party (HDP) in Turkey, is also a member of the government delegation that has been talking with the Kurdistan Workers’ Party in the Qandil mountains and with Abdullah Ocalan, the PKK leader jailed on Turkey’s Imrali island. This places him in the unique position of knowing the thinking of all the parties engaged in the Ankarak-PKK peace process. In this interview with Rudaw, Onder speaks about Ocalan’s prison life, the leader’s thinking about events in Syria’s Kurdish regions and a delayed Kurdish Congress that was due to gather all Kurdish groups from around the world for talks on adopting a common Kurdish agenda. Here is an edited transcript of the interview.
Rudaw: Let us start with your visit to Imrali. How did you find Abdulla Ocalan? How was his condition, health and morale?
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: Ocalan is one of the leaders of the nation who always preserves his morale. He is that kind of politician. Ocalan has health problems, but he does not talk about them. He has been in prison for 15 years. He has sacrificed a lot for democracy and his nation. That is why he does not talk about those problems.
Rudaw: How does he spend his time in prison? Does he have a daily program?
He has sacrificed a lot for democracy and his nation. 
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: I know that he writes and reads a lot. He has written books. But since he is in prison, his activities are restricted. To some extent he is prevented from contacting other prisoners.
Rudaw: Since the beginning of the peace process, have there been any changes in his condition? For instance, it is said that he has access to some TV channels and some Kurdish newspapers? It is said that he is able to watch Sterk and Rudaw TV channels, and is allowed to read newspapers such as Ozgur Gundem and Azadia Welat?
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: These are all his legal rights, but they are violated so far. Therefore, we can’t talk about such a development. We can only talk about his legal rights. He reads Kurdish newspapers but only after 30 to 40 days from their date, because the newspapers go under revision before reaching him. Turkish newspapers are available for him after eight to 10 days from when they are published. e has access to 12 TV channels, but none are Kurdish channels. I think TRT6 is one of the channels.
Rudaw: Ocalan is allowed to talk to political delegations, but recently he has not been allowed to talk to his lawyers. Have you discussed this with the Turkish justice minister? What do they say about that?
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: They can’t say anything about it. It is a violation of his rights. But I think it will be resolved. We will solve the problem. In the near future, he will be able to talk to his lawyers and political delegations. His meeting with (Kurdish MP from Turkey) Leyla Zana was the first step in this regard. It was the first time that he met a politician who was not a member of delegations.
Rudaw: Does Ocalan believe that the operations of December 17 were against the government’s efforts, and that these kinds of operations might upset the peace process?
He is more concerned about the government’s lack of commitment.
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: Ocalan does not think that these operations will disrupt the peace process. He is more concerned about the government’s lack of commitment. But the government did not start the process alone. There is a 30-year struggle, and there is a will to find a solution and Ocalan has advanced the case. Therefore, one side did not initiate the process. The public opinion in Turkey and the Turkish people proved this. Therefore, those kinds of operations will not affect or freeze the peace process. Any kind of disruption to the peace process will have negative impacts on everyone. It seems that the government will focus more on the upcoming elections at the expense of advancing the peace process. What is Ocalan’s stand on this? Does he have hope? What is the government supposed to do at this stage? What does Ocalan ask for?
Rudaw: Ocalan has sent a letter to Massoud Barzani, president of the Kurdistan Region. Do you have any information about the content of the letter?
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: We were there when he wrote the letter. Leyla Zana delivered Barzani’s regards and greetings and Ocalan had the same response. It was a half-page letter in which he expressed hope for holding the national congress and expressed his readiness to do whatever necessary for the process.
Rudaw: What was his opinion on the national congress?
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: Ocalan is very concerned about the delay of the national congress and the problems of western Kurdistan (Rojava). The hurdles that have caused the delay in the national congress are not formidable. He believes that the process of holding the national congress has to be expedited.
Rudaw: What is Ocalan’s view on the cantons of western (Syrian) Kurdistan?
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: He expected the process. Ocalan is well familiar with the areas of western Kurdistan. He believes that the support of Kurds in western Kurdistan for the revolution there is guaranteed. Since the beginning, lots of importance is given to this issue and the other issue was independence. Currently, the whole world’s public opinion depends on Ocalan and the Democratic Union Party (PYD). Although they try to isolate PYD and the Kurdish nation from the issues and to prevent their participation in the process, no one can confront history. Not only for peace in western Kurdistan and Syria but also for peace in the whole area, the process is initiated and advanced by PYD.
He believes that the process of holding the national congress has to be expedited.
Rudaw: Turkey did not have any negative or positive stand on the announcement of cantons in western Kurdistan. Did the peace process and Ocalan’s meetings have any impacts on the issues?
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: In this regard, the Turkish foreign policy is like the movements of a dizzy chicken. If you have realized, lots of allegations are made against the people of western Kurdistan. In the beginning it was said that the Kurds support Bashar Assad. Later, it was said that the Kurds are linked with the Syrian Free Army. In fact, this is an arrogant point of view. Why? Because they don’t think that Kurds deserved to have their own status. They do not take Kurds seriously. I think this is bigger than killing them. I tell them that they can’t do anything for themselves.
Rudaw: Earlier, the government officially used to say that Imrali and Qandil have different viewpoints on the peace process. It was said that Qandil does not follow Imrali. You talk to both and you have had many meetings with both of them. Is this true?
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: Up to this stage, lots of injustices are committed against the Kurdish nation and the Kurdish movement. For instance, we still remember the injustice committed against the struggle of Barzani, Talabani and their parties. This is the policy that governments have used for a long time. They want to create such a perspective. They always want to hide their perspective. In my opinion, Koma Civaken Kurdistan (KCK) acts appropriately. KCK and Ocalan are approaching the process peacefully. Similarly, the Kurdish nation, in the presence of such confidence can discuss several issues. But at the end, Ocalan is one of the leaders of the Kurdish people. Everyone knows that. He acts carefully. In the past, Ocalan was depicted as the killer of children. Now, articles are written on his role in making peace.
Rudaw: What is the HDP viewpoint on the operations of December 17?
Lots of allegations are made against the people of western Kurdistan.
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: There is a fight over power, because when you look at it, you can’t find any social or ideological or religious reasons. The disagreements are over the distribution of power. I don’t think it will last long.
Rudaw: Will the problem between the government and the group have any impact on the peace process?
Sırrı Sureyya Onder: Of course it will. Our permanent problem is that our land is divided into four pieces. The [Turkish] leaders bring their fights into our ground. If you move the internal fight into another area, you can be saved. The Kurdish nation for a long time has been the victim of such a policy. We have seen this before. Where there was fighting within the authority here, always the Kurds would have to pay for it. Therefore, it can jeopardize the peace process. But the process does not depend on who is in power anymore. There is love of a nation and love for a nation’s leader. Besides, there is a support from other parts of Kurdistan. We are talking about something which has never reached this stage.
