If Syria breaks up there’ll be a Kurdish state: former Turkish FM

The following is a translated version of the interview.  

Yaşar Yakış: Because the AKP was powerful to begin with. It took charge of all state apparatus and regarded it as legitimate. Political parties in Turkey tend to grant large powers to their leaders. It is not easy to confront party leaders (in Turkey). And whether it was preplanned or not, I have no knowledge about. 

There has always been a move within all parties to quash internal competition. Those who join the party later will do so through the party’s election filter. And since they are elected I don’t think they are in competition. 

Political parties are constantly in a process of change and that is the right way. Maybe the AKP would never go back to its founding principles. 

In the West the political organizations have been working for longer periods. The Labor Party in England was founded in 1900 and the Republican Party in the US in 1854. If the political parties do not adapt to the changing conditions, their time will pass. 

The discussion about presidential system of governance in Turkey is heading towards a wrong direction. Instead of discussing whether or not the presidential system is appropriate in Turkey, the debate is about whether or not Receb Teyyb Erdogan can be the president. If we copy all the laws of presidential system in the US, we are still unable to create a presidential system like the one in the US, largely because we in Turkey lack the institutions that monitor and supervise other institutions. Like all political systems, the presidential system is very much dependent on the cultural circumstances. Only when the culture is enhanced, one can say the (presidential system) can be put in place here. The courts are political. It can easily imprison a political leader who has read a poem in a gathering. It has imprisoned the commander of the army on terrorism charges. And the court has then filed a lawsuit against the judges who gave that particular verdict. 

The Turkish policy was based on the assumption that Assad would soon be removed, right from the start. Obviously the main principles of diplomacy would not allow you to put all your eggs in the same basket. If Assad had fallen, Turkey would have walked away victorious. But now when Assad is still in power, Turkey has to realize the consequences of its policy. When it was established that Bashar Assad would not fall in a short period of time, the policymakers here should have spoken to the public and said that ‘we had built our entire policy on Assad’s fall. Now when that is not the case we will change our approach.’

I think if the policymakers had recognized that, the public opinion in Turkey would be ready to accept it. But now this policy has created extreme challenges for Turkey. 

The events in Syria have created great opportunities for Kurds in the country. The US has found a strong ally in the Kurds fighting the ISIS. The Russian support for Kurds is a great opportunity. Russia would have backed the PYD against Turkey even if ISIS were not on the agenda. 

We don’t know where the Syrian dilemma will head. But the main options are there. If the centralized system continues in Syria after the mayhem, Kurds will be part of that central system. But if they want to deprive Kurds of citizenship as before the crisis in Syria, well, I don’t think they can sideline the Kurds any more. There is a possibility to have a decentralized system in Syria where Kurds are granted extensive powers. But if they go for the confederation system, then I think the Kurdish cantons will continue within this confederation. The three cantons of Cizire, Kobani and Afrin are now established. It is not clear yet whether a fourth canton between Jarablus and Mare will be set up. Or maybe there will be an Arab-Kurdish-Turkman canton there instead because of overwhelming Arab population. But of course if a federal system is established in the country, there will inevitably be a federal Kurdish region like the one in northern Iraq. Where the borders will be depends on the events in the future. But if after the crisis, Syria is no longer united, well then there will be a Kurdish state in northern Syria. 

At the moment Russia, the US and Iran which are the main players in Syria want the country to remain united. The other options will be on the table when Syria no longer remains one country. 

The cantons of Cizire, Kobani and Afrin have been established already. But it is not clear yet if we will see a fourth canton between Jarablus and Mare. Turkey is firmly against this canton and the integration of Kobani canton and Afrin. What will happen, I think the US, Russia and Iran will have a say about that. 

The PYD gave the wrong message to the international community after freeing Kobani. According to the Amnesty International report in late 2015, the PYD under the shadow of US air support, has been driving out the Arabs and Turkmen from their villages. The PYD has destroyed the homes of some people. It also took the same approach against the Kurdish opponents of the PYD. It blocked the way for people to return to their homes. Although PYD says it has done so in order to demine the region of the ISIS explosives, but the Amnesty International is not satisfied with that explanation. They say the PYD has committed a war crime by doing these evictions. 

If Turkey has the same relations with Kurds in Syria which it already has with Iraq’s Kurds then I think the damage will be minimum for Ankara. It is not Turkey that would decide about the possible integration of the cantons. The decision is for the Syrian people and the foreign players in Syria. 

Turkey established healthy relations with the Iraqi Kurds and both sides have been blessed by the good relations. There are no reasons why Turkey shouldn’t have the same relations with Kurds in Syria. 

I don’t know if there is any connection between the war in Turkey and events in Syria. There are cross border relations between Syria and Turkey’s southeast and that has complicated matters. But if Turkey had to a certain extent recognized the issues, I think the solution would have been easier. 

If Turkey changes its policies in regard to the Kurds in Syria, its issues with the Kurds in Turkey will not be resolved but it could pave the way toward a solution. 

Turkey has taken steps in that direction before. The PYD leader Salih Muslim was invited to Turkey. According to statements by the Turkish officials, Turkey has had the following offers for Salih Muslim: “If you want Turkish coordination, you need to stop supporting Bashar Assad. You need to join the forces that fight Assad.” Salih Muslim could not predict whether the Syrian regime would soon collapse or not, which is why he did not accept the (Turkish) offer. Time will tell if Muslim was right or not. But what is clear is that Muslim did not want to put all his eggs in the same basket and did not bet on the fall of Syrian regime.

What happens now, Salih Muslim will be invited to Turkey again. To protect the rights of the Turkmen people in Northern Syria where Kurds constitute the majority of the local population, Ankara will coordinate with the Kurds. Because the fate of the Kurds in Northern Syria is not intertwined with the US or Russia, but with Turkey. Russia tries to remain in this area but Turks and Kurds have a shared future regardless of Russia being there or not. The Kurds on both sides of the border speak the same language. Many of them are of the same tribes. Their faith is the same. They are relatives, living in the same geography. For these reasons the coordination of Turkey with PYD is in the interest of both sides.

To solve the Kurdish question in Turkey, President Erdogan took brave steps and started the ‘democratic process’ or ‘the Kurdish opening’. This was the largest step forward in regard to the Kurdish question in the country. Turkey can take inspirations from Northern Ireland, the Bask region and South Africa for this issue. It is not realistic to try to destroy PKK as a solution. If Turkey is not able to solve the Kurdish issue within itself now, it will lose more heavily in the future.