“On a daily basis we have casualties,” said Jabar Yawar, spokesman of the Kurdistan Region’s Peshmarga forces, explaining that peace in the autonomous Kurdish enclave does not mean that the work of the Peshmarga is done. “In the disputed territories, which are some of the most dangerous places (in Iraq), every day there is a fight between the forces and the terrorists,” he said in an interview with Rudaw. Yawar added that the Peshmarga are on their way to becoming “a national army,” instead of a divided force acting for one of the two major parties in Kurdistan. He said that the lack of training, and financing from the central government in Baghdad, were some of the major issues facing the Peshmarga. Here is an edited transcript of his interview:
Rudaw: Have the Peshmarga forces become a national army of Kurdistan, or are they still loyal to a party?
Jabar Yawar: Since 2010, we have actually been pushing in that direction because previously the Peshmarga were divided between two major parties. But we are pushing for a national army now, and we are getting closer and closer to that every day. There are 13 brigades in the Peshmarga ministry, close to 42,000 soldiers. If you divide the ministry into three parts, we’ve managed so far to have one part recognized as national forces. But the other two parts are still outside of that recognition and we’re trying to bring those parts in the direction of the national army. Hopefully, in the very near future, all Peshmarga forces will be recognized as a national army. Before the American forces left Iraq, they offered us their help and they provided a lot of different training and facilities to the Iraqi forces as well. But since the Americans left, neither the American army nor the Iraqi army have offered the Peshmarga any kind of further training.
As you are aware, there is another issue, which is financial. The Iraqi government is not sending any money to the Peshmarga ministry, which is a major issue at the moment.
Rudaw: So where does the Peshmarga Ministry look to for training if Iraq and the US are not assisting or offering to help?
Jabar Yawar: At the moment, we are training ourselves. It cannot be compared, but still we cannot just sit down and wait for people to come to us. So, we actually train the Peshmarga forces ourselves. Also, training requires financial support, and we need to get that support from somewhere. The support we have been receiving is not the same amount that the ministry should be getting from the Iraqi army. The Iraqi government hasn’t been sending us the Peshmarga budget since 2007 and therefore, at the moment, we don’t have the financial resources for all of the Peshmarga forces to be recognized as national forces. The financial support is the major issue preventing this from happening.
Rudaw: Has the US given specific reasons for why they won’t help with training?
Jabar Yawar: Basically, there is very little US staff remaining in Iraq. Before they left, they had a very large presence here, but now that presence is very small and most of them are consular staff. It’s a matter of them not being here anymore.
Rudaw: The Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) does not allow the Iraqi army to enter its territory. Does this mean the Peshmarga play the role of the army in protecting the borders?
Jabar Yawar: Yes. If there is an issue, if someone wants to fight against Kurdistan and we cannot defend ourselves, then we could ask Iraq for help. But they need permission first before they can enter. The same goes for Iraqi territory – if they have an issue then we can go help them there as well, but they will have to give us permission first before we can enter.
Rudaw: If the Peshmarga forces are protecting the border, why is it then that Baghdad refuses to provide their budget as mentioned in the constitution?
Jabar Yawar: There are plenty of issues between the KRG and the Iraqi government, and one of them is the Peshmarga budget. Basically, it’s a matter of both parties interpreting Article 121 in the constitution differently. Iraq thinks under this article that they shouldn’t have to send the KRG any money for the Peshmarga budget. But the KRG, from their perspective, thinks the Iraqi government has to provide that money for them because they are a part of the defense of Iraq. The disagreement over this continues and has yet to be solved.
Rudaw: The Peshmarga and the Iraqi army fought each other for decades. Do you think the two sides trust each other now, or is there still a degree of mistrust and suspicion between them?
Jabar Yawar: Before 2003, we fought against the Iraqi regime, which was a different regime, a different government. But after that, things changed. We’re shareholders in the Iraqi government and to this day, in the Iraqi forces, there are plenty of active Kurdish fighters. Once the regime changed, the feelings of mistrust and suspicion that used to exist between the Peshmarga and the Iraqi army disappeared quite quickly, because it was a different regime.
Rudaw: Would you ever be willing to send the Peshmarga to other parts of Iraq to fight insurgents?
Jabar Yawar: Actually, Iraq has previously accepted our offer to help them fight terrorists, and Peshmarga forces were sent to Baghdad to do so. And we’re still open to this, sending Peshmarga forces to Iraq to fight against terrorists. So in the future, if Iraq accepts our offer, we send Peshmarga again. But we will not go and fight against civilians.
Rudaw: The Peshmarga sided with the American army during the war to topple Saddam Hussein’s regime. Did the Americans appreciate that?
Jabar Yawar: You cannot just say that the Peshmarga forces helped the Americans because we fought alongside each other. They helped us and we helped them. For example, many Americans lost their lives to terrorists during the war and said “we’re fighting against the terrorists.” So we told them where the terrorists were and then they helped us to get rid of the terrorists and they thanked us, because we showed them. It was give-and-take. We worked together as a team.
Rudaw: How have the Peshmarga managed to stay out of all the violence and wars in Iraq and the Middle East?
Jabar Yawar: There are a few reasons. First, in 1991 and 1992 we gained experience in how to manage ourselves and how to protect people. From that moment, the Peshmarga forces and the police department gained experience. There is also good communication between the people and the forces, which helps maintain security. Also, we do not believe in solving issues or reaching any target through fighting. We try and deal with everything through negotiations, which is why we haven’t been involved with any kind of big conflict. We just want to negotiate at the table and work things out through dialogue.
Rudaw: The Peshmarga forces were once known as brave fighters, as the name suggests ‘ready to die’. But for almost two decades, Kurdistan has been peaceful. Do you worry about the Peshmarga losing their fighting capabilities?
Jabar Yawar: We’ve been fighting non-stop and we’re still fighting. On a daily basis we have casualties. In the disputed territories, which are some of the most dangerous places (in Iraq), every day there is a fight between the forces and the terrorists. I think, as a result, the Peshmarga are actually getting stronger day-by-day. We don’t see it that we’re not fighting anymore, though we wish that were true. It’s not a big scale war, but we’re still fighting all the time. To confirm we have not lost our fighting capabilities, if you consider Iraq and the KRG area, you can easily see for yourself that the KRG area is much safer than the rest of Iraq. And thankfully, with the help of everyone, everyone is able to live a more peaceful life here now.
Rudaw: People in the disputed territories – Kurds, Christians and Yazidis alike – are vulnerable to attacks and often call on the KRG to send the Peshmarga to protect them. Are there Peshmarga forces in those areas to protect them?
Jabar Yawar: Yes, there are Peshmarga forces in the disputed territories. There, the land is being protected by the Peshmarga and the Iraqi army side-by-side. Though right now there might be issues between the two governments, there aren’t really any issues between the forces themselves.
Rudaw: How are the relations between the Peshmarga and the Ministry of Defense in Baghdad?
Jabar Yawar: There is some communication between us, but it could be much better. We should have done a lot more to foster both better communication and better relations. You could say there is no trust between us. If there was a strong bond between the Ministry of Defense in Iraq and the Ministry of Peshmarga in the KRG we could have shared operations between us, shared intelligence connections and so on. We do not work together.
Rudaw: Have there been efforts on your part to reach out to Baghdad and improve relations between the two ministries?
Jabar Yawar: We are always showing our eagerness that we want to work together, but it’s more from them that they don’t want to work together.
Rudaw: How does the deteriorating relationship between the central government in Baghdad and the KRG affect the future viability of the Peshmarga forces?
Jabar Yawar: Well, the issues contributing to the deteriorating relationship are not just related to the Peshmarga, there are plenty of other issues, such as oil. As long as these issues are visible on the table, the Peshmarga will still be viable. But the issues are all connected, and many can’t be solved until something else is first sorted out. The more issues there are, the more tensions there will be and the more the Peshmarga will be affected. On the other hand, a solution to one issue will step-by-step lead to another issue being sorted and to another and so on, because they are all connected. For example, if we reach out to solve the oil issue, then the finance issue will be sorted as well, and then the Peshmarga budget will be sorted as well. It will have a cascading effect.
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