Kurdish MP from Turkey asks why democracy is forbidden for his people
Speaking to Rudaw reporter Ala Shali in Paris, former People’s Democratic Party Spokesperson Osman Baydemir expresses the frustration of Kurds who see no Western support when Kurds try to act democratically. He offers the example of the Kurdistan Region’s independence referendum in October 2017.
“If Kurds go to Mars and Jupiter and establish a state, believe me Erdogan and Ankara regime will say, 'We want the territorial integrity of Mars and do not want Kurds to have their own state,' ” said Baydemir.
“If Kurds go to Mars and Jupiter and establish a state, believe me Erdogan and Ankara regime will say, 'We want the territorial integrity of Mars and do not want Kurds to have their own state,' ” said Baydemir.
On the peace process in Turkey, he says negotiation is needed, not more bloodshed.
The MP from Urfa in Turkey argues that non-democratic regimes with dictators who oppress their populations are doomed to fail: "They are cowards. Their fear is the losing their reign."
The MP from Urfa in Turkey argues that non-democratic regimes with dictators who oppress their populations are doomed to fail: "They are cowards. Their fear is the losing their reign."
He says Kurds in Turkey were not able to voice their support for Kurds in Afrin because they would be killed for taking anti-government stances.
Rudaw: Thank you so much for this interview. Mr. Osman you talked about the situation in Turkey in general and you also talked about peace process. Has HDP tried or taken any initiative to recreation or resumption of peace process in north of Kurdistan?
Osman Baydemir: First of all, I offer my greetings to all Rudaw viewers, especially the people who live in Kurdistan. Actually the current situation in Middle East is very hard for all people of Kurdistan. There are huge attacks on human values. As HDP and as a Kurd, I know very well that no problem can be resolved through war and killing, but instead by dialogue and negotiation. Blood can be washed out by blood. Only negotiation is required. But unfortunately the Ankara regime day after day is getting away from negotiation. It destroys all the bridges between humans day after day.
The invasion of Afrin is the destruction of a bridge. The destruction of Afrin is destruction of future. [It is] an attack on coexistence
and the feelings of coexistence. Therefore, one can say that unfortunately currently the Ankara regime or government is away from the process of peace and negotiation because all their thinking and perspective is based on Kurdish enmity. Who are the allies of Erdogan? It is the MHP (Nationalist Movement Party). They are nationalists. Who are his [Erdogan's] allies? Ergenekon, who are the most nationalist Kemalists? These [parties] have formed an alliance. Their alliance and enmity is not only against HDP, Bakur Kurds, or Rojava, but also against Bashur.
Unfortunately Ankara had a dirty role in the destruction of Kirkuk [along with] Hashd al-Shaabi and other forces. This means that now if Kurds from any place in Middle East demand their rights Ankara will consider them to be terrorists. I said this in the [Paris] conference as well. If Kurds go to Mars and Jupiter and establish a state, believe me Erdogan and Ankara regime will say, 'We want the territorial integrity of Mars and do not want Kurds to have their own state.’
Now, the non-democratic regimes have experience. Look at Germany’s Hitler regime, Mussolini or Franco. They all fell. Let's not go
far. Let's look at Iraq and Baath regime of Saddam. This [Turkish government] will be a victim of its oppression the same way these [regimes] became victims of their oppression. [An example], with your permission: I apologize to all cats of Kurdistan. Now what the Ankara regime is doing is like what a cat does. When chasing a bird, cats climb trees, but they do not know how to come down from the tree. They are scared. Dictatorship is the same. They [dictators] are cowards. Their fear is the losing their reign.
Can we say that the resumption of peace process by both sides Turkey and the HDP is unlikely now?
Unfortunately is unlikely because the one who abolished the peace process should see his mistake. He shall see that the abolition of peace process and conflicts will not benefit anyone. Villages and Kurdish cities were destroyed here. We now can say that we live in prisons. We can say Kurds lost Kirkuk. What did Erdogan gain? What did Turkey gain? What did Ankara gain? Ankara bought a barrel of oil for $35 but now it is $50. They lost it.
This means that if Kurds lose, Ankara cannot gain. If Kurds lose, Baghdad cannot gain. If Kurds lose, Tehran and Damascus cannot gain. They think that Kurds should lose and not be able to see their mothers. They have to stay away from this thought. Therefore,
we can say that Kurds need unity more than anything else, whether in Bashur, Bakur, Rojhalat or Rojava. Kurds need unity. We as Kurds are 40 million but still considered as minority.
Look, in one of the parts of Kurdistan, Kurds go to ballot boxes. [Their government] holds referendum and asks its people 'What shall we do?' This is seen as a mistake. Why? Why is democracy via elections throughout the world? And elections are announced through referendum. People's opinions are measured through ballot boxes. Why is it prohibited for Kurds? Why is it a mistake for Kurds? Why is democracy a developed thing for France and Turkey? Why did Erdogan hold a referendum? Why was it just for him but a wrong thing for the south of Kurdistan? No, even Kurds have this right. They [Turkey] have to accept this. If he [Erdogan] accepts this, the peace process will start.
My last question for you is when Turkey attacked Afrin and controlled it, the Kurds of Turkish Kurdistan were criticized severely for not providing enough support to the people of Afrin. How do you respond?
Rudaw: Thank you so much for this interview. Mr. Osman you talked about the situation in Turkey in general and you also talked about peace process. Has HDP tried or taken any initiative to recreation or resumption of peace process in north of Kurdistan?
Osman Baydemir: First of all, I offer my greetings to all Rudaw viewers, especially the people who live in Kurdistan. Actually the current situation in Middle East is very hard for all people of Kurdistan. There are huge attacks on human values. As HDP and as a Kurd, I know very well that no problem can be resolved through war and killing, but instead by dialogue and negotiation. Blood can be washed out by blood. Only negotiation is required. But unfortunately the Ankara regime day after day is getting away from negotiation. It destroys all the bridges between humans day after day.
The invasion of Afrin is the destruction of a bridge. The destruction of Afrin is destruction of future. [It is] an attack on coexistence
Unfortunately Ankara had a dirty role in the destruction of Kirkuk [along with] Hashd al-Shaabi and other forces. This means that now if Kurds from any place in Middle East demand their rights Ankara will consider them to be terrorists. I said this in the [Paris] conference as well. If Kurds go to Mars and Jupiter and establish a state, believe me Erdogan and Ankara regime will say, 'We want the territorial integrity of Mars and do not want Kurds to have their own state.’
Now, the non-democratic regimes have experience. Look at Germany’s Hitler regime, Mussolini or Franco. They all fell. Let's not go
Can we say that the resumption of peace process by both sides Turkey and the HDP is unlikely now?
Unfortunately is unlikely because the one who abolished the peace process should see his mistake. He shall see that the abolition of peace process and conflicts will not benefit anyone. Villages and Kurdish cities were destroyed here. We now can say that we live in prisons. We can say Kurds lost Kirkuk. What did Erdogan gain? What did Turkey gain? What did Ankara gain? Ankara bought a barrel of oil for $35 but now it is $50. They lost it.
This means that if Kurds lose, Ankara cannot gain. If Kurds lose, Baghdad cannot gain. If Kurds lose, Tehran and Damascus cannot gain. They think that Kurds should lose and not be able to see their mothers. They have to stay away from this thought. Therefore,
Look, in one of the parts of Kurdistan, Kurds go to ballot boxes. [Their government] holds referendum and asks its people 'What shall we do?' This is seen as a mistake. Why? Why is democracy via elections throughout the world? And elections are announced through referendum. People's opinions are measured through ballot boxes. Why is it prohibited for Kurds? Why is it a mistake for Kurds? Why is democracy a developed thing for France and Turkey? Why did Erdogan hold a referendum? Why was it just for him but a wrong thing for the south of Kurdistan? No, even Kurds have this right. They [Turkey] have to accept this. If he [Erdogan] accepts this, the peace process will start.
My last question for you is when Turkey attacked Afrin and controlled it, the Kurds of Turkish Kurdistan were criticized severely for not providing enough support to the people of Afrin. How do you respond?
Afrin is the same as Kirkuk, Qamishli, Mahabad, Sanandaj, Erbil, and Amed. There is no problem in this regard, but unfortunately there is not only state of emergency in the north of Kurdistan but also a military and fascist system. Anyone who protests will be killed. I can say that now 13,000 people have been detained and 4,000 of our members are in jail. Now, we are in such a situation where there is pressure and enmity against Kurdistan. Sirnak and Cizre were destroyed like Kobane. We can say that unfortunately it does not show results like in Kobane where all the people of the north of Kurdistan rose up. But unfortunately in this situation, that result and opportunity does not exist because the regime is not governed through democracy, but dictatorship.