ERBIL, Kurdistan Region - Kurdistan Region Deputy Prime Minister and senior Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) member, Qubad Talabani, on Thursday stressed the need for genuine partnership between his party and the rival Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP), amid talks to form the upcoming Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG).
Discussing the PUK’s perspective on the uncertainties of Iraq and Kurdistan Region's future with Rudaw’s Shaho Amin at the Erbil Forum 2025, Talabani stated that the KDP and PUK did not enter the discussions “to distribute [government] positions” as “[was done] in the past,” adding that the Kurdish ruling parties want to define “what partnership means.”
According to Talabani, the PUK views partnership as “undertaking responsibility” and “participating in the making of important and strategic decisions.” He additionally stressed that “any agreement must include a system of accountability,” noting that “there must be a mechanism that employs punishment, a reaction, or creates accountability if, for whatever reason, the agreement is not implemented.”
The Kurdistan Region held its delayed parliamentary elections in October, where the KDP emerged on top, securing 39 out of 100 spots in the Kurdistan Region’s legislature. Meanwhile, the PUK came in second with 23 seats. Despite several months passing, political parties have yet to reach an agreement on the formation of the KRG’s tenth cabinet.
Despite the standstill, both Talabani and his brother, PUK leader Bafel Talabani, affirmed in late February that the government formation talks with the KDP are “progressing very well.”
Regarding Turkey, Talabani stressed the importance of improving ties between the PUK and Ankara. “The relations between Turkey and the PUK are longstanding,” he said, adding that “we must try again to convince Turkey that Sulaimani is not an enemy” nor a “threat to Turkish national security.”
He also reiterated the PUK’s support for peace efforts between Turkey and the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK). Notably, hours after Talabani’s remarks, PKK leader Abdullah Ocalan issued a long-awaited statement calling on the group to lay down its arms and dissolve itself. Talabni had remarked that Ocalan’s announcement would be “the first step to end conflict” that will be followed with “peace building and the establishment of an environment for coexistence.”
The following is the full transcript of the discussion with Talabani.
Rudaw: Where have the [talks to] form the [upcoming Kurdistan Regional] Government reached?
Qubad Talabni: The formation of the new government is a process that perhaps started a bit slow after the elections, but meeting after meeting the process became more active, and the topics that are being discussed have become more serious. I can say with optimism, that the steps that we have taken have progressed well.
Undoubtedly we should not forget that in previous years the conditions between the PUK and KDP were uneasy. Those who have been involved for long in this topic, like my honorable brother [and senior PUM member] Mr. Saadi [Pira], who is young, but has long been involved in this topic, has been through all the days, the good and bad. I believed that he could testify better than anyone that relations between these two parties were at their worst. The political tensions between the two parties have also been at their worst level. It’s only natural that this process takes time and isn’t settled in a day and night.
We, along with my honorable brother, [head of the PUK relations bureau] Mr. Darbaz [Kosrat Rasul], and other comrades, have not come to divide up [government] positions during the talks for government formation as [was the case] in the past…We want to ask ourselves [and determine] what does partnership mean?
I wanted to ask, when the PUK keeps saying partnership, what aspect of partnership is it referring to?
We asked this question to our brothers in the KDP as well. For us, partnership means undertaking responsibility, before everything, participating in the important decisions, the strategic decisions, partnership in governing the state and protecting it. It means to be partners, not participants. There is a difference. If you are only participating in a process, it is different from owning the issue. What we wanted to prove in this discussion is that we, as a governing pillar in the Kurdistan [Region], want to have a more serious and effective participation in the tenth cabinet than the past.
What have you reached so far?
Until now we have worked on [establishing] a vision for governance. We did not discuss [the distribution of government] positions. Should I repeat it again? We have not discussed [the distribution of government] positions. We have talked about the mechanism of administration.
Does the mechanism have that much left?
Yes, yes, we are talking about governance in a region where various internal, regional, and external issues and threats are prevalent. The Kurdistan Region is facing major challenges. Our mechanism must be robust enough to face internal challenges and at the same time counter global and regional challenges and changes. The topics are very technical, some of the topics are very detailed…
On what points have you agreed and what do you have to left to agree on?
I will not tell you.
Why?
Just because… not because I want to hide it from you. Respectfully, these discussions are taking place between the two sides [PUK and KDP], and we have, fortunately, entered into these discussions in good spirits and there is a positive atmosphere in our meetings. If you have noticed, it might be the first time that in the government formation process we are not revealing things through the media. We have a serious meeting between two political parties that most of the people of the Kurdistan Region have voted for. This is why we want to rebuild trust and credibility. This can be rebuilt when people realize that we are serious. If we reveal all the topics of our meeting and each other’s notes after every meeting, the credibility will be lost. Then we may not be able to speak with such sincerity in our meeting [with each other].
But the people might want to have an idea about when the government will be formed, the markets are stalled, work has stopped, and so on.
I would like the government to be formed tomorrow. If it were about preferences, we want it to be formed as soon as possible. But it is more urgent for the people… to form a cabinet that has taken things into consideration and to have settled the administration mechanism so that the cabinet is robust and effective rather than haphazard because of pressure. We have stopped doing substandard work, the situation cannot handle more of this. We need to have a government where it is clear what the roles, responsibilities, and duties of all sides participating in forming the government are. How will we organize them and how will we manage this country? And this takes time. I will repeat this, the trust that was built between 2006 to 2010, after all the misfortunes [we have experienced] in the past, has diminished year after year. We must rebuild it.
Does the PUK have a veto on anyone in the KDP undertaking ministerial and top positions in the government, and vice versa from the KDP towards the PUK?
We have not discussed positions, and in the last meeting we discussed something, we will give this information to you. We discussed how the mechanism of appointing government positions will be. What will the mechanism be, not who will take the positions… This is one of the topics we proposed and we are discussing and again instead of talking about the positions we are talking about the mechanism of position appointments and their distribution. Alongside, that I will repeat this, more important than that is the mechanism of implementing that shared vision that we are now working on drawing up.
In the next cabinet what will your position be? Deputy prime minister or what?
Only God knows. This one is in the hand of God.
But people have plans, they want to know what they need to do.
It is early. It is early.
Can you tell us what the Kurdistan Region President Nechirvan Barzani and PUK leader Bafel Talabani discussed in Munich during their [meeting in mid-February] and discussions?
As you know we have a long-standing and strong relation with our honored brother Mr. Nechirvan Barzani, and I was delighted when I heard that Mr. Nechirvan and Mr. Bafel met in Munich. It is not an unnatural thing for them to see each other… I am sure they discussed various things. I am sure they talked about the situation of the Kurdistan Region and I am sure they talked about the government formation process. They were both in agreement that this process must be done soon, that a robust government must be formed. They have discussed risks from both sides, and each side’s expectations. Not [allocation of] positions, the things we discuss are much deeper…
The KDP says that the PUK emphasizes establishing a partnership a lot in the government but does not take accountability and sometimes acts as an opposition. What do you say about this?
We want that mood to change. If we see ourselves as owners of the government, and we know that we are partners in this government and are partners in the making of strategic decisions and not just the difficult decisions…the things that upset people, we must also participate in [delivering] good news, in [rolling out] projects, services, initiatives, developments…
What are the errors that the KDP and PUK have had in previous agreements that must not be repeated this time?
This is the core of our effort this time… We have collected the old agreements between the PUK and the KDP, they all have very good elements, but they do not have two things, mechanism and who is responsible to guarantee that something is done, and if it is not done, what is the consequence? In the end, think of government formation as preparing a contract between two sides… there must be a mechanism that employs a punishment, a reaction, or creates accountability if for whatever reason the agreement is not implemented. This is what we are working on this time.
They say that the KDP has accepted that the prime minister and his deputy form the government together, but have not agreed that if the deputy and ministers from the PUK withdraw for the government to be dissolved. What do you say about this?
This is very new information, thank you for this information. Look, we do not want to enter these negotiations with the intentions of withdrawing from the government. This is a negative outlook. We want to implement what is agreed on. So what is the mechanism that guarantees that this government is one of partnership where decisions are made together. If one side shifts away from this, there must be a reaction. You remember that I did not participate in the meetings of the [KRG’s] Council of Ministers for six to seven months. When I did not participate, we did not have such authority. As a result, we were met with pressure, we had no option. We sat with [KRG Prime Minister] Mr. Masrour [Barzani], and we discussed some topics, things moved forward, and I started joining the meetings of the Council of Ministers again.
We do not want that to be repeated, as you said, our market and our people do not deserve to be affected by our personal conflicts in their daily lives. This is why we must set a mechanism for managing things. Second, this is more difficult than anything, which is why we ask for patience from the people of Kurdistan. The PUK and KDP are different parties, they have two very different histories, ways of thinking and implementing their policies, structure, and support base. A voter of the KDP is very different from a PUK voter. These are all strong points if you think about it, if we were all the same then why have two parties? We would’ve all been one party and there would have been no issue.
Since we are two different parties, we must find a mechanism so that we can live with our disagreements, and not let everything go into a standstill when there is disagreement on an issue. After all these years have passed, especially the past few years, the trust is at a very low level. This trust can be restored with experience and time, not with words, agreements, and handshakes, but with a clear mechanism we can regain trust so we can have an understanding and sympathy. I would like our friends in the KDP to understand the fears and anxiety of the PUK, and the pressure that is on our streets. We must understand the expectations that our brothers and sisters in the KDP have. The problems of the Kurdsitan [Region] stem from fear, a few of them are due to different policies. It is not as if someone says I am liberal…
For example, fear of what?
Our history is so full of strife, of trying to dominate each other, of getting in each other’s way. Blood has been spilled between us, conspiracies, coup d'etat. These things all leave marks. So we must first return to an environment that protects the government and governance from political disputes. Let the PUK and KDP have political disputes in parliament and adopt different policies and try to express their political philosophy through law in their political headquarters, but the government must be protected from politics. The government must not be used as a weapon to settle political scores with each other.
So can people be optimistic that the so-called Green and Yellow zones will cease to exist? [Despite working together in the KRG, the PUK and KDP have established control over different parts of the Kurdistan Region, often being referred to as the “Yellow Zone” and “Green Zone“. The KDP is dominant in Erbil and Duhok provinces, while the PUK rules Sulaimani and Halabja.]
I am optimistic that this process is progressing in a healthy way. I am also optimistic about the negotiations that are ongoing so far. I am optimistic that the points we have agreed on so far can be implemented. What is left, I believe, is room to reach a common understanding.
Erasing the terms ‘the Green and Yellow Zone,’ cannot be completed by one cabinet. Perhaps this cabinet can have a more all encompassing governance so that a decision made in Erbil can be implemented in Garmiyan and an opinion from Sulaimani can be approved in Duhok. But it is clear in this regard that if you look at the previous elections it is clear that the population of each party is very strong in one area. That balance that exists now will remain, and this is not a bad thing. In the United States, California is always a Democratic [state] and other states are always Republican. There are some that change…
You often hear that the PUK’s policy with Iraq is different from the KDP’s, what is the main difference here?
I do not know. I do not want to evaluate the KDP’s policy with Baghdad. The PUK believes that the Kurdsitan [Region]’s issues cannot all be resolved in Erbil. When we were able to solidify Kurdish rights in the Iraqi constitution and provide them with a legal and constitutional standing, we did it neither in Erbil nor Sulaimani, we did it in Baghdad.
In 2012, after [former Iraqi president and PUK leader] Mam Jalal [Talabani] got sick and until a few years ago, the position of the Kurds in Baghdad diminished. This damaged the Kurdistan Region. The PUK decided to reverse this. If our standing as a party is strong in Baghdad, it will be strong in Kurdistan as well. The salary issue was not solved in Erbil, it was solved in Baghdad. The other issues that the Kurdistan Region faces are not solved in the Kurdistan Region, the ones that are related to Iraq, they are solved in Baghdad. So we must have a stronger standing at the Iraqi level, and our connections must be stronger at the Iraqi level. Imagine if the KDP and the PUK both have a strong position in Baghdad and we work together like we did in 2005 to 2007, no one can stand in our way. If we are divided here, they will rip us apart there.
Recently Mr. Bafel Talabani was in Baghdad and he said we want the Kurdish [parties] to run as a unified list in the upcoming Iraqi parliamentary elections in October. Mr. Nechrivan welcomed this idea. Does the PUK want this to be with the KDP and other Kurdish parties as well?
When Mr. Bafel said all of the parties should be together, it was clear. I believe that he wants an armstrong Kurdish front in Baghdad. This goes back to our will. It is very natural for us to have disagreements on local issues. But on the issue of Kirkuk, there should be no conflict between us, and the same goes for the issue of Khanaqin, Shingal [Sinjar], the article 140 [disputed] territories as a whole, we must be one. And we are one, if you look at the incident that happened recently with the farmers [in Kirkuk] everyone raised their voice, in one loud voice and direction, including brothers from Komal [Kurdistan Justice Group] and the [Kurdistan Islamic] Union [KIU]. For national issues we can be one and when we are one, it is extraordinary. Because we are a strong bloc. When they cannot play with us or divide us, no one can beat us.
How does the PUK see recent regional developments such as the regime change in Syria, the weakening of Hezbollah [in Lebanon] and the weakening of Iran’s influence in the region? The PUK has good relations with Iran while the KDP has very good relations with Turkey. What is your view on these changes?
Can I make a comment on your question?... Many times this is described in a black and white way, that the PUK and Iran have good relations and that the KDP and Turkey have good relations. It is interpreted in a way as if there are very bad relations between the KDP and Iran and very bad relations between the PUK and Turkey. I believe that none of this is black and white, it is all in degrees. I will remind you of the Iranian President’s [Masoud Pezeshkian] latest visit to the Kurdistan Region, and the visit of the Kurdistan Region’s President to Iran and the way he was welcomed. It is true that he went under the title of the Kurdistan Region’s president, but the Region’s president is Mr. Nechirvan Idris Barzani, a deputy of the KDP [leadership]. And the welcoming he received was not a welcome given to someone who they [the Iranians] have bad relations with…. Nothing in this region is black and white, it is all shades of grey. This is if you accept this [comment] from me.
Regarding the developments in the region, they will certainly impact Iraq and perhaps the Kurdistan Region, especially the developments in Syria. The situation in Lebanon may be a bit distant from us in the Kurdistan Region, but the changes in Syria will definitely impact Iraq and the Kurdistan Region. But the events are still evolving. The process in Syria, and the changes that happened there, this is not the end of it. I believe that many other times changes may happen in Syria. What exists now, will it remain as it is? It is difficult for the situation in Syria to remain as is. I believe that the interference will increase and Syria will face big problems if they do not reach an understanding on governance, the top of the leadership in Syria and including all components.
The Syrian foreign ministry was set to visit Iraq a few times but it was cancelled. Iraq’s policy towards Syria is unclear. Where does the PUK see itself in this formula?
The entire world is watching for now, whether it is Western countries, Russia, Israel, the United States, Iraq, Iran, and many countries are observing now. It is true that it has lent a friendly and assisting hand to Syria, and it is true that the things that the Syrian leadership is saying so far, most of them, are positive, most of them are the type of words that are meant to ease fear and anxiety. However, implementation is more important. One of the points the people are watching out for is to see if today’s Syria is different from the Syria of the past. It is about coexistence and the manner of governance, especially what the role of the Kurds in Syria will be.
I believe that people think because Iran has taken a blow in Gaza, Lebanon, and Syria, this means that this is the end of Iran and Iran will cease to exist, and the Iranian front is completely defeated. I believe that again, like most things in this region, it is not a black and white issue. Iran is a powerful country, it has powerful institutions, and it can implement a very wise policy, and it has ruled for thousands of years and has thousands of years of experience, and I believe that it is too early for people to believe that what has happened is the end of Iran.
Returning to the topic of West Kurdistan (Rojava), they have given many martyrs to protect their land in the fight against the Islamic State (ISIS), and now the new Syrian government does not acknowledge them. How can you assist West Kurdistan?
We are always in contact with them, and we hope that they can play a role in the new Syria similar to that played by Mr. Masoud [Barzani] and Mam [Jalal] in Baghdad, to prove and solidify the rights of the Kurds in Iraq. We must make every effort, with our brothers and sisters in Rojava, and foreign and regional countries so that the position of Kurds in Syria is strengthened. This needs effort from various aspects. First, we have always been on the line with [Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) commander] comrade Mazloum Abdi to go towards Damascus. But we must reach Damascus, he must have a place in Damascus, his route must be protected until he reaches Damascus. This is why we always talk with our Turkish brothers. If you want Syrian Kurds to be truly Syrian, you must let them work and do politics in Syria. But if every day there is a threat that they will be struck on the way, they might not move around. It will be a very big mistake for the new Syria to marginalize the Kurds. Without Kurds, Syria will not become a nation or a country that is peaceful and has the chance to succeed.
How is your relationship with Turkey? Recently, the PUK met some Turkish officials. Why is the Turkish flight ban on the Sulaimani airport still in place?
Undoubtedly, the relations between Turkey and the PUK are longstanding, they are relations that Mam Jalal [Talabani] set the cornerstone of. He strengthened this relationship. If you remember, in 2008, 200,000 Turkish soldiers on the Ibrahim Khalil border were about to enter, and Mr. Masoud [Barzani] went to the border and said you must pass over my dead body.
The situation was like this. Mam Jalal held a meeting in Baghdad with a Kurd and a Turk, he eased tensions a bit and the discussions were normalized a bit. So if there is a coldness in the relations between the PUK and Turkey, I believe that it will not be long until they are improved, and there have been steps on both sides to improve those relations. Some [of the tensions] were caused by misunderstandings and some because ever since 2012 and up until the last couple of years, the internal situation within the PUK was difficult. The PUK has only been able to collect itself and have a unified stance and policy for a few years and it could be that due to preoccupation with internal crises and political differences, we may not have had the ability to talk about the important and strategic issues outside the Kurdistan Region.
Now there is a better relation between Turkey and the PUK. We must try again to convince Ankara that Sulaimani is not the enemy of Turkey and that it should not regard Sulaimani as an enemy. Sulaimani is not a threat to Turkish national security. It is not right for Turkey to punish Sulaimani as if it would punish an enemy. The PUK may have a different political stance on the Kurdish issue in Turkey than that of the Turkish government. So why must a citizen from Sulaimani travel from Erbil or Kirkuk airport rather than the Sulaimani’s airport. They will travel anyway, it is just that they will face inconvenience on the way and have more expenses. Turkey may incur a loss here because perhaps many travelers would have liked to travel to Turkey, many investors would have liked to travel to Turkey, these are all opportunities that Turkey has lost due to their decision to enforce a ban on the Sulaimani International Airport.
We hope, and in all our talks we have urged Turkey to review this decision and we have always criticized the federal government for not doing enough to defend us in this case. If I can direct my complaint to more than the federal government, it shouldn’t only be me in the KRG who insists on reopening Sulaimaini International Airport. Other people in the KRG should constantly ask for this international airport in the Kurdistan Region to be reopened.
Today, there is expectation of good news, the message of peace of [the leader of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) Abdulla] Ocalan. Many PKK fighters have weapons in the Kurdistan Region, what will happen to them if Ocalan’s message is to lay down arms?
We are all awaiting this message and as you know a while ago an important delegation from the [pro-Kurdish Peoples’ Equality and Democracy Party’s] DEM Party visited [Ocalan] Imrali prison and then visited the Kurdistan Region and held meetings [with Kurdish leaders and officials] in Erbil and Sulaimani. In those meetings we expressed our support for any process that may lead to the end of the [PKK-Turkey] conflict, and may lead to peace in Turkey and become an initiative to solve the issue between Turkish and Kurdish [peoples] in Turkey. If Mr. Ocalan delivers his message today, I believe it will be the first step towards ending the conflict, before anything, and after building peace, and building an environment for coexistence.
What did the DEM Party delegation tell you?
They asked for our support in this peace process and for our opinions first in this process. One of the reasons for their meetings [in the Kurdistan Region] was to understand the points of view and opinions of all sides. In Turkey, they had a good tour and reviewed the opinions of all sides and told us that the opinion of the vast majority of parties was positive and supportive of achieving peace and ending conflict. Later, they thought it was important to come to Kurdistan and listen to the opinions of the main parties in the Kurdistan Region.
And, of course, as I previously mentioned, we expressed our support for the process, and expressed our readiness to help with whatever is needed in this process for the sake of ending the conflict and building peace, and for the sake of creating an environment [conducive] to coexistence.
