Danish minister says PKK hurting Kurdish cause, sees Iraq division

Danish Foreign Minister Kristian Jensen, in an interview with Rudaw, says that the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) made a mistake by declaring attacks in Turkey, preventing the world community from reacting against bombing raids carried out by Ankara. Speaking to Rudaw in Copenhagen, he said that in an upcoming meeting with the leader of Turkey’s HDP, he will urge the pro-Kurdish party to condemn all terrorist attacks, including by the PKK. Commenting on the Kurdistan Regional Government’s (KRG) ambitions for independence from Iraq, he said: “I think that the division of Iraq at some point might become a reality.” Jensen added that there is no good solution to stop the growing number of European citizens from going to fight alongside the Islamic State group (ISIS) in Syria or Iraq, but that doing nothing was not an option. Commenting on newspaper ads taken out by his government in newspapers in the Middle East, discouraging refugees from coming to Denmark, he defended the policy, saying it was meant to educate potential refugees about the realities of seeking asylum in Denmark or EU countries like Germany. Commenting on Ankara’s role in the alliance against ISIS, he called it “a double-edged sword.” Here is a transcript of the full interview:

Rudaw: How does Denmark contribute to the fight against ISIS?

Kristian Jensen: We will continue to strengthen Iraqi Prime Minister Haidar Abadi, so they can be inclusive towards all ethnic and religious groups in the country. On the other hand, there are problems with the Iraqi government when it ignores some really harsh militias. It is important that Iraq becomes an inclusive country. If it does not become so, then I think that the division of Iraq at some point might become a reality.

What do you think about independence for the Iraqi Kurdistan Region?

In relation to whether the KRG should be independent, that requires they have a financially viable situation. They (KRG) are not able to do that now. Currently, they have an economic division, which means that they get Iraqi oil money. So, either they must have control over the oil fields and get their own money, or they must continue to get Iraqi oil money. But I will not deny that, when this conflict with ISIS is over one day, new borders will be drawn on the map.

How will regional powers react?

Turkey considers an independent Kurdistan as a threat, simply because they fear that Kurds in Turkey will then think "if they can, why can’t we?"

But Turkey has a very close relationship with the KRG and has not officially warned against Kurdish secession from Baghdad.

It is true that Turkey and the KRG have a relatively good relationship. But it is only until the time, I fear, that the KRG declares independence.

How do you view Turkey's efforts against ISIS?

Turkey is a double-edged sword in this conflict: they are on the one hand essential to have in order to close the border to ISIS fighters. They are essential so that we can have some air bases, enabling us to react more quickly. But they just have a dual role, because Turkey has been more interested in keeping the Kurds out than fighting ISIS.

Turkey will now create a free zone in northern Syria. What do you think about that?

Turkey will create a free zone in northern Syria for two reasons: first, to have an area where the nearly two million refugees from Syria can return; second, Turkey wants to push Kurds away from their own border.

Some believe that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s decision to launch bombing raids against the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) weakens the fight against ISIS?

The PKK has created a huge problem for itself by actively declaring after July 20, after the Suruc suicide attack: "we were responsible for acts of terrorism in Turkey.” When the PKK does this, we as a world community have our hands tied, because we have an agreement that all countries have the right to fight terrorists on their own soil. When the PKK does this, then they have given Erdogan the green light.

So you don’t think that PKK activities benefit the Kurds?

Currently, PKK is damaging the Kurdish case. They have legitimized Erdogan attacking them, and also the HDP, which had a fantastic election on June 7. (Now) they get harassed, their offices are being vandalized.

HDP co-chairman Selahattin Demirtas will be visiting Denmark these days. What will you say to him?

Demirtas has requested a meeting with me and, therefore, I will listen to him. My message to him is this: The Kurds must maintain order in their own ranks. Do not give Erdogan an excuse to crack down on you. We are ready with a proposal of friendship with HDP, but it also requires that HDP is ready to condemn all forms of terrorism, including the one that PKK is behind. We will be friends and allies with HDP in their pressure to get Turkey back to the negotiating table with the PKK. We have said directly to Turkey: we do not see any other solution than resuming the negotiations.

Why do you think the peace process stopped?

It was a pity that the peace process with the PKK stopped after July 20. Erdogan thought he could get a larger majority and when he found out that his dream of getting a majority in Turkey was not possible, he opted against the peace road and instead took the conflict (road) and hoped that this is the one that will make him get his majority back in the snap elections on November 1.

There has been criticism that jihadists have crossed the border from Turkey into Syria without being stopped. What do you think about that?

It is a huge problem. We have talked with the Turks to stop it. Gaziantep in Turkey has been a transit route for foreign fighters into ISIS in Syria. Turkey has not done enough.

What will Denmark do?

I have spoken with the previous and current foreign ministers in Turkey and I have talked about the issue with John Kerry. In EU circles, I have tried to create a unity that we should increasingly put pressure on Erdogan.

Why is it important to increase pressure on Turkey?

The policy Turkey is using against Kurds is unsustainable and is helping to create major problems for the alliance against ISIS, which Turkey is a part of. But I think from now to the snap elections in Turkey on November 1, it will be hard to get Erdogan to listen to anything other than his own desire to get a greater majority in parliament.

There has been some media concern in Turkey that the arms the West and Denmark provide to the KRG will end up in the hands of the PKK. What do you think?

We do not provide direct weapons to the PKK. We give weapons to the Kurds in Iraq. Where our weapons will end up, I can’t promise you. But if, among the Kurdish groups we work with, there are any who are militant against Turkey, we will keep away from them.

So the West, including Denmark, does not support the PKK?

We try to keep out of supporting the PKK. Denmark was one of the first countries that placed the PKK on the terrorism list. We do not cooperate with them.

Some Kurds believe that Denmark agreed to close down the pro-PKK Roj TV so that the former prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, could get Turkish support to become secretary general of NATO. What do you think?

We have not done that. In Denmark, we have no confusion between the government and the courts. Roj TV was judged by the courts, which are independent of politicians.

How is Denmark's relation with the KRG?

We are allied with the Kurds in Iraq, and Denmark has long supported the KRG. The Kurds in Iraq have been one of the most powerful alliance partners we have had on the ground.

Why does the West, including Denmark, not support the Kurds in Syria through the People's Defense Units (YPG)?

It's hard for me as minister to distinguish between YPG and the PKK. When I meet with HDP co-chairman Selahattin Demirtas, I will tell him: If we must support you, then you have to be clear in your definition of who is leading the armed struggle and who leads the political struggle because, if the armed struggle means supporting terrorist acts, then we can’t support you.

Denmark has arrested a young man and a Kurd who have fought alongside ISIS. How is it possible to stop the flow of young people who are joining ISIS?

Some of the young people who have been down there are being trained in dangerous skills. They come back here with these skills in the handling of weapons or explosives. So, we must take action against them. Therefore, we are working to find what we can do to stop people who are on the way to ISIS. Can we seize their passports, issue travel bans, make it a criminal offense to go to ISIS areas? They are bad solutions, but it is even worse to do nothing. So we have to do something.

Denmark fights ISIS, but will not accept refugees fleeing from ISIS. You are publishing advertisements in Lebanese newspapers to deter refugees from coming. Why is that?

Norway has made TV commercials, Germany has made ads. So we have ads about living conditions in Denmark – and that is not something new. When you hear stories from some of the refugee camps around the world, it shows that people think that they just come to Germany and all get their own homes and there is work for everyone. Therefore, there are countries that have a need to tell people how the terms and conditions are.

But it won’t prevent people from coming to Denmark anyway?

I don’t think that Denmark can avoid taking in refugees. People will wind up here. In some areas, I think, Denmark is going ahead, especially in helping refugees in neighboring regions. We give support to these neighboring regions.