Regional security issues can be managed, not solved: Iraqi FM
There are a multitude of security problems in the Middle East that Iraq’s foreign minister hopes to see discussed at a regional forum in Bahrain, but said that finding a solution maybe out of reach at the moment.
“There are issues in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, and between Saudi and Iran as well as Turkey and other countries,” Foreign Minister Fuad Hussein told Rudaw’s Sangar Abdulrahman on Friday. “The meetings held here are aimed at exchanging views on how to further secure the region and manage the issue, rather than resolving them because it is very difficult to resolve them. It is easier to manage the issues.”
He is attending the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) Manama Dialogue that brings together government ministers, national security advisors, and intelligence chiefs.
Kurdistan Region Prime Minister Masrour Barzani is also attending, hoping to focus on three main issues: terrorism, renewable energy, and food security.
The following is a translation of Fuad Hussein’s full interview with Rudaw’s Sangar Abdulrahman.
Rudaw: The Manama summit takes place at a time when there are security challenges in the region. How do you see the attendance of Iraq and the Kurdistan Region?
Fuad Hussein: True. The subject of the summit is about the security situation of the region, which has an impact on the security of the whole world. Most of the attendees of the Manama Dialogue or Manama Congress are foreign ministers, defense ministers, and heads of intelligence and security agencies. We have been invited as well… It is important to take part in such a dialogue. In addition to the general meeting, there will be meetings on the sidelines as well. This is very important.
What are your expectations from the dialogue and its attendants? Iraq is one of the countries in the Middle East that is not secure. What demands will you make in the general meeting and bilateral meetings?
It is a dialogue, not a place to make decisions. It is a place where you make relations, exchange views, and reach final deals with the representatives of attending countries during bilateral meetings. However, during the general meeting, general issues will be presented. What we want is related to those countries we meet with. Iraq wants more stability for the region because now is not like before. I mean, if the security situation of one country is harmed, it will have an impact on the whole region. The security of the region generally is not good. There are issues in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, and between Saudi and Iran as well as Turkey and other countries. These countries are near, from the Middle East, they are close to one another. The meetings held here are aimed at exchanging views on how to further secure the region and manage the issue, rather than resolving them because it is very difficult to resolve them. It is easier to manage the issues. These meetings are helpful in this regard, especially the bilateral meetings.
Some people who attended the Middle East Peace and Security (MEPS) forum in Duhok last week believed that Iraq is currently in a very dangerous situation in terms of security, in a way it has never been since 2003. What do you think?
I disagree.
Why?
Let me say where the issue sourced from. Iraq was in danger when Daesh [Islamic State, ISIS] attacked and controlled one third of its territory. Baghdad and Erbil were in danger… I would say this time was the most dangerous since 2003 in Iraq. It is true that there are issues which are related to the election and its results. These issues, mostly between Shiite political parties, will finally be resolved.
Some believe that a civil war in Iraq is plausible now. Do you agree?
There had been apprehensions of civil war in the past but they were controlled. There is such an atmosphere now and there are issues, but they will be controlled and a civil war is not plausible at this time. If this issue is resolved, there will be no civil war.
How are Erbil-Baghdad relations now?
They are normal but there are still issues. There is communication and meetings. One cannot resolve issues after the elections. There are unofficial talks for the formation of a new government. I hope the current issues are included in the agenda of the new government and they can find a solution for them because it is not good that the issues remain and sometimes increase when cabinets change. However, there is communication between the governments but there are still issues.
What will the next Iraqi government look like? Will it be all-inclusive or all-Shiite?
I cannot make a prediction because this is related to intra-Shiite talks and Shiites talks with Kurdish and Sunni political parties. However, I believe that the prime minister - who will be from the Shiites - will be chosen based on a consensus. Otherwise, it will be very difficult. The issue of each party's share based on its seats in the parliament is something else. The prime minister should be approved by Kurds and Sunnis as well, not just Shiites. The positions of parliament speaker, prime minister, and the president should have a consensus - and it will be so.
Yesterday the first batch of Iraqi migrants was returned from Belarus. What has your ministry done and will do in this regard?
We organized [the flight]. The migration issue is unfortunate. I had a meeting with 27 foreign ministers of Europe in Luxembourg in late June. This was one of the issues of discussion. There, I had a meeting with the Lithuanian foreign minister who visited Baghdad ten days later. We have been trying with the European Union since then to point out from Iraq and Baghdad that this is a dangerous issue. I have brought up this issue several times during meetings of the Council of Ministers, saying that this is a very dangerous phenomenon and that a group of smugglers are doing human trafficking.
Has anyone been arrested?
This is human trafficking. We have names and we have information that fake visas were sold in Baghdad and Erbil. There are smugglers in Erbil, Baghdad, Duhok, and Sulaimani. This is a network. A group of smugglers was arrested in Baghdad recently. They are from all places, not only Baghdad. We realized that they were doing human trafficking. There was no tourism and they were deceiving people. They tell [migrants] they will take them to Germany for $15 to 20,000. They sell their houses and cars to pay the smugglers. We had information on this. The intelligence head of all these countries visited us. They had obtained information from the migrants. We found out that there was a big hand behind it. As a first measure, we suspended flights to Belarus. We later took other measures such as making it difficult for people to obtain visas. Everyone from the European Union thanked us for these measures. However, our problem was how to convince the people to return home. Finally, we announced that we were willing to send a plane. So, 430 people had submitted requests [to return]. Later, the plane returned them, most of whom are people of Kurdistan. It first landed in Erbil then in Baghdad. Now, another 75 people have submitted requests and the number may reach a few hundred next week. We will return the people in batches.
Is it voluntary?
This is voluntarily and we do not forcibly return people - we cannot. They voluntarily went there but after seeing the situation and realizing that they did not achieve their goal despite spending money… Even if they reach Germany, they will still be deported because these countries are not like they used to be in order to take them as refugees. As a duty of the Iraqi government, its foreign ministry sent a number of delegations to Lithuania and Poland.
Why are European countries so tough when it comes to receiving migrants?
It is not about toughness. The thing is that there is a big political issue between Belarus and the European Union. They believe that Belarus is using this as a tool to impose pressure on the European Union so that the European Union concedes to the demands of Belarus or Minsk. They don’t accept this. The policy of European countries in relation to migration has now changed. It is not only the people of Iraq that go there but also those of Syria, Yemen, and Afghanistan. They [Minsk] have gathered them all to be sent to European countries. They [Belarus] allowed us to send a plane and we did so. God willing we will send more planes in the future. They will return to their country. They attempted [to migrate] but they realized that it was not worth selling their properties to go to the border where their children died and they were attacked as well as dying of cold and suffering from hunger. This is how the situation is.
What will you do about those people who do not want to return?
They do not want to return and this is their own decision.
Will you speak with Poland and other countries about them?
They have their own policy. Poland is a country that has its own policy. It rejects migrants’ entrance because they come from Iraq where no one is arrested for their political beliefs. It is different from having an economic crisis which does not need migration. Migration is based on ideology, political differences and the policy of the government. They [the EU] observe that such issues do not exist in Iraq. They have representatives in Baghdad and Erbil, and they also see the situation and analyze it. They do not buy what is told to them because they have relations and visit here.
“There are issues in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, and between Saudi and Iran as well as Turkey and other countries,” Foreign Minister Fuad Hussein told Rudaw’s Sangar Abdulrahman on Friday. “The meetings held here are aimed at exchanging views on how to further secure the region and manage the issue, rather than resolving them because it is very difficult to resolve them. It is easier to manage the issues.”
He is attending the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) Manama Dialogue that brings together government ministers, national security advisors, and intelligence chiefs.
Kurdistan Region Prime Minister Masrour Barzani is also attending, hoping to focus on three main issues: terrorism, renewable energy, and food security.
The following is a translation of Fuad Hussein’s full interview with Rudaw’s Sangar Abdulrahman.
Rudaw: The Manama summit takes place at a time when there are security challenges in the region. How do you see the attendance of Iraq and the Kurdistan Region?
Fuad Hussein: True. The subject of the summit is about the security situation of the region, which has an impact on the security of the whole world. Most of the attendees of the Manama Dialogue or Manama Congress are foreign ministers, defense ministers, and heads of intelligence and security agencies. We have been invited as well… It is important to take part in such a dialogue. In addition to the general meeting, there will be meetings on the sidelines as well. This is very important.
What are your expectations from the dialogue and its attendants? Iraq is one of the countries in the Middle East that is not secure. What demands will you make in the general meeting and bilateral meetings?
It is a dialogue, not a place to make decisions. It is a place where you make relations, exchange views, and reach final deals with the representatives of attending countries during bilateral meetings. However, during the general meeting, general issues will be presented. What we want is related to those countries we meet with. Iraq wants more stability for the region because now is not like before. I mean, if the security situation of one country is harmed, it will have an impact on the whole region. The security of the region generally is not good. There are issues in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, and between Saudi and Iran as well as Turkey and other countries. These countries are near, from the Middle East, they are close to one another. The meetings held here are aimed at exchanging views on how to further secure the region and manage the issue, rather than resolving them because it is very difficult to resolve them. It is easier to manage the issues. These meetings are helpful in this regard, especially the bilateral meetings.
Some people who attended the Middle East Peace and Security (MEPS) forum in Duhok last week believed that Iraq is currently in a very dangerous situation in terms of security, in a way it has never been since 2003. What do you think?
I disagree.
Why?
Let me say where the issue sourced from. Iraq was in danger when Daesh [Islamic State, ISIS] attacked and controlled one third of its territory. Baghdad and Erbil were in danger… I would say this time was the most dangerous since 2003 in Iraq. It is true that there are issues which are related to the election and its results. These issues, mostly between Shiite political parties, will finally be resolved.
Some believe that a civil war in Iraq is plausible now. Do you agree?
There had been apprehensions of civil war in the past but they were controlled. There is such an atmosphere now and there are issues, but they will be controlled and a civil war is not plausible at this time. If this issue is resolved, there will be no civil war.
How are Erbil-Baghdad relations now?
They are normal but there are still issues. There is communication and meetings. One cannot resolve issues after the elections. There are unofficial talks for the formation of a new government. I hope the current issues are included in the agenda of the new government and they can find a solution for them because it is not good that the issues remain and sometimes increase when cabinets change. However, there is communication between the governments but there are still issues.
What will the next Iraqi government look like? Will it be all-inclusive or all-Shiite?
I cannot make a prediction because this is related to intra-Shiite talks and Shiites talks with Kurdish and Sunni political parties. However, I believe that the prime minister - who will be from the Shiites - will be chosen based on a consensus. Otherwise, it will be very difficult. The issue of each party's share based on its seats in the parliament is something else. The prime minister should be approved by Kurds and Sunnis as well, not just Shiites. The positions of parliament speaker, prime minister, and the president should have a consensus - and it will be so.
Yesterday the first batch of Iraqi migrants was returned from Belarus. What has your ministry done and will do in this regard?
We organized [the flight]. The migration issue is unfortunate. I had a meeting with 27 foreign ministers of Europe in Luxembourg in late June. This was one of the issues of discussion. There, I had a meeting with the Lithuanian foreign minister who visited Baghdad ten days later. We have been trying with the European Union since then to point out from Iraq and Baghdad that this is a dangerous issue. I have brought up this issue several times during meetings of the Council of Ministers, saying that this is a very dangerous phenomenon and that a group of smugglers are doing human trafficking.
Has anyone been arrested?
This is human trafficking. We have names and we have information that fake visas were sold in Baghdad and Erbil. There are smugglers in Erbil, Baghdad, Duhok, and Sulaimani. This is a network. A group of smugglers was arrested in Baghdad recently. They are from all places, not only Baghdad. We realized that they were doing human trafficking. There was no tourism and they were deceiving people. They tell [migrants] they will take them to Germany for $15 to 20,000. They sell their houses and cars to pay the smugglers. We had information on this. The intelligence head of all these countries visited us. They had obtained information from the migrants. We found out that there was a big hand behind it. As a first measure, we suspended flights to Belarus. We later took other measures such as making it difficult for people to obtain visas. Everyone from the European Union thanked us for these measures. However, our problem was how to convince the people to return home. Finally, we announced that we were willing to send a plane. So, 430 people had submitted requests [to return]. Later, the plane returned them, most of whom are people of Kurdistan. It first landed in Erbil then in Baghdad. Now, another 75 people have submitted requests and the number may reach a few hundred next week. We will return the people in batches.
Is it voluntary?
This is voluntarily and we do not forcibly return people - we cannot. They voluntarily went there but after seeing the situation and realizing that they did not achieve their goal despite spending money… Even if they reach Germany, they will still be deported because these countries are not like they used to be in order to take them as refugees. As a duty of the Iraqi government, its foreign ministry sent a number of delegations to Lithuania and Poland.
Why are European countries so tough when it comes to receiving migrants?
It is not about toughness. The thing is that there is a big political issue between Belarus and the European Union. They believe that Belarus is using this as a tool to impose pressure on the European Union so that the European Union concedes to the demands of Belarus or Minsk. They don’t accept this. The policy of European countries in relation to migration has now changed. It is not only the people of Iraq that go there but also those of Syria, Yemen, and Afghanistan. They [Minsk] have gathered them all to be sent to European countries. They [Belarus] allowed us to send a plane and we did so. God willing we will send more planes in the future. They will return to their country. They attempted [to migrate] but they realized that it was not worth selling their properties to go to the border where their children died and they were attacked as well as dying of cold and suffering from hunger. This is how the situation is.
What will you do about those people who do not want to return?
They do not want to return and this is their own decision.
Will you speak with Poland and other countries about them?
They have their own policy. Poland is a country that has its own policy. It rejects migrants’ entrance because they come from Iraq where no one is arrested for their political beliefs. It is different from having an economic crisis which does not need migration. Migration is based on ideology, political differences and the policy of the government. They [the EU] observe that such issues do not exist in Iraq. They have representatives in Baghdad and Erbil, and they also see the situation and analyze it. They do not buy what is told to them because they have relations and visit here.