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Rudaw’s Majeed Gly spoke with United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres on Wednesday, discussing a wide range of topics including Iraq’s road to recovery, the importance of the UN’s mission to Iraq, as well as dire issues facing the country such as worsening climate change and endemic corruption. Furthermore, the UN chief described his excellent relationship with the Kurdish people and expressed solidarity. Guterres also answered critics about the UN’s slow response to the quake-hit zones of northwest Syria, and called on the people of Syria to come together to avoid being misled by neighboring countries.
The following transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Transcribed by Julian Bechocha
Rudaw: Thank you so much sir for this opportunity.
It is a pleasure. Allow me as we are approaching Newroz to wish to you and to all those who will be seeing us, Happy Newroz.
Thank you so much. Thank you very much. I want to ask in this interview about Iraq and Syria, especially earlier this month you spent two days in Iraq. But before that, I also want to point out an interesting fact about this interview – in the 77 years of the history of the United Nations, this is the first time the UN Secretary-General sits down with a Kurd, someone from Kurdistan for an interview. This, while …
It is probably the first, but it will not be the last.
I hope not. Thank you so much. This also speaks to the fact of the absence of Kurdish voice at the United Nations, as I am sure you are familiar with our history. A nation of nearly 60 million people and the land that was divided historically a century ago by European colonialism, those borders are still enforced by current international system. Do you think a lack of Kurdish voice in the United Nations makes the United Nations less diverse, less tolerant, and less just?
Now, we are extremely interested, as we have in the UN Iraqis, Syrians, Iranians, and Turkish. We are of course very much interested in the context of those national representations, all important ethnic groups are represented and in this sense, I have many Kurdish friends who would be delighted to have, from either of these countries, Kurdish elements in the UN, and whatever I can do, of course there are mechanisms of selection and whatever, but whatever I can do would be of course very much in favor, to take into account your observation.
Absolutely, and we go to your visit in Iraq. You spent two days in Iraq. You met everybody, including civil society, UN staff. I will start the question about the UN itself. UN has a very large program in Iraq, I would say a very expensive program in Iraq, that has an almost unusual unanimous backing by the Security Council with a clear mandate, and Iraq has many issues. Are you satisfied with the conduct of the UNAMI [United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq] and the United Nation programs there and do you think there can be more achieved by the United Nations in Iraq?
Well, I believe that UNAMI has been doing a good job. Nobody is perfect, we do not intend to say the UN is perfect in anything we do anywhere in the world, but I think that UNAMI gave a positive contribution to what is for us, extremely important, is that Iraq is able to re-emerge from all the problems that Iraq has known in the recent past, to re-emerge as a very important international actor and at the same time, creating the capacity to make its institutions work to the benefit of the Iraqi people. Iraq has natural resources, it is not a poor country, but it is very important to have the quality of governance and the unity in diversity, but the unity in diversity that is necessary for those resources to be fully used to the benefit of the population. So, I believe the role of UNAMI has been to give a contribution to help move in this direction, and I think that in this visit to Iraq, I could witness that there has been a very important progress in relation to the position of the country, and I think this is a moment of hope, a moment of hope that Iraq will be able to have a sustainable process of consolidation of its institutions, of solving its remaining problems, and of initiating a new process able to provide their citizens with all the basic services that they are entitled to receive and that the country has the resources to provide.
As we mentioned many resources in Iraq, but now the new one in Iraq is concerning for many Iraqis, is the issue of the impact of climate. This month, at the United Nations there is on the agenda a water conference, and Iraq is a prime example of the impact of climate change, in terms of drought, in terms of lack of water. Is there any plan by the United Nations international community to specifically help Iraqis as they feel the impact of climate change probably more than most countries around the world?
I think this must be in the center of international cooperation with Iraq in the, unfortunately, years to come. It is not a problem that will be solved easily. Climate change is moving very quickly, very fast, and let us be honest, the world has not yet been able to come together and to give the priority and the urgency that climate change requires, and so temperatures are going up, and we are at risk to see our limit – the limit of 1.5 degrees of temperature growth that we consider the maximum that the world can endure, the world can accept without even more tragic consequences – we are at risk to see that limit become irreversibly impossible if drastic action to reduce emissions is not taken in the short-term. So, there is one area, which is to actively engage in reducing emissions. The second area, which is linked to Iraq, is to increase the invest of international community in adaptation. What is adaptation, is the measures that the country can take to build resilience in relation to the impact of climate change, and from that point of view, we are insisting in the perspective of the next COP (Conference of States Party) of the agreement, we are insisting on the need to have a doubling of the financing for adaptation in support for developing countries. Now, Iraq on top of that, has a serious water problem, the water problem is not only about climate change, it is also about the volume of water that you receive from your neighbors, that has been decreasing in the recent past. And I would say, Mesopotamia was the very center of the Fertile Crescent, and that was where civilization was born, and civilization was born because agriculture was possible and agriculture was possible because of the two rivers, and Mesopotamia means the “land between two rivers,” and we cannot allow the land between two rivers to become a land without rivers, and I have to say that I think it is very important to create the conditions to make sure – and there is a dimension of international cooperation that is very important in that regard, and I particularly attest because I was Prime Minister of Portugal when we made a very important water agreement with Spain in relation to the management of our common rivers – so I think it will be very important to have a serious dialogue on these issues and at the same time, to have a support for Iraq to adopt the policies that are necessary to preserve, namely the farming capacity, in the valley of the Tigris and the Euphrates.
Absolutely, and one of the other big issues in Iraq that I come to is the issue of corruption, and it is not like any other country in the Middle East statistically, billions are being looted, the ruling class in every level are participating in this, according to neutral international reports about this, and that made them in a way, even immune to democracy. Mr. Secretary-General, right now the government in Iraq, the ones that are elected, were chosen from a party that lost the elections. This is the reality of Iraq, there is a certain of immunity by the elite because of this corruption that is happening, it is very systematic. What can the international community realistically do, and the United Nations can do about this?
First, there is an international convention on corruption, and there will be soon the Conference of States Party, and we had yesterday a very important meeting here with the so-called Global Compact, which means the private sector around the world that is supporting UN, and the main priority will be exactly the fight against corruption. And we will be ready to do everything possible to support a serious fight against corruption everywhere, but in particular in countries like Iraq. I must say, in my conversation with the prime minister, I was impressed by the fact that he is fully aware of the problem and that he can see that solving the problem is essential for Iraq to be able to fully take profit of the resources that are available and corruption is always, together with the illicit financial flows, with the money laundering, and with other, all other mechanisms, corruption is an element that completely undermines the possibilities of sustainable development of a country. So, I hope that Iraqis will come together and fight corruption and show corrupted people that they have no place in the management of the country.
And that’s what the Iraqis want to hear and hope for. One of the parts of your visit in Iraq was, you visited Erbil and also a refugee camp in the north, and before I go to that issue of Erbil-Baghdad relation, there was, six years ago, when you visited the Kurdistan Region, you had a meeting with President Masoud Barzani, president of the KDP [Kurdistan Democratic Party], although he does not have a government title, but is known to be the most influential Kurd in the Middle east and millions across the region follow him, so I was just curious as journalist to see that there was no meeting between you two. Was there a reason behind it?
It was a very short visit. So, I visited all those that are occupying now positions of responsibility in the government of the autonomous region of Kurdistan. But I would like to tell you something that, is really from the bottom of my heart. I, before even the fall of Saddam Hussein, I was involved in different moments in movements that add a strong solidarity with the Kurdish people. I remember the “Chemical Ali,” the horrible use of chemical weapons against the Iraqi, the Kurdish Iraqi population.
Tomorrow is the anniversary. Tomorrow is the anniversary of that attack, Halabja.
Yes, and this is something that we need to keep in our memory, because it was something absolutely intolerable. Now, I remember that I had the chance to know Jalal Talabani from the past, even relations related to previous activities that I have had. I had many contacts when I was High Commissioner for Refugees with Masoud Barzani, and I see these two men as two very important symbols of, in their unity. The way they work together, two very important symbols of the modern autonomous region of Kurdistan and the Kurdish people. My appeal is for the unity they presented to be preserved in Erbil, Sulaimani, in the other cities of the Region. I think that unity is very important. At the same time, It is very important, I was encouraged in my conversations with the president and the prime minister in Erbil and in my conversations in Baghdad, I was encouraged, there is a political will to solve in the next few months the pending issues – oil, budget, resource allocations – we will do everything possible to support these efforts. We need to stabilize the relationship between Erbil and Baghdad and we need to do everything possible for Iraqis in general but also in particular Kurds in the autonomous region of Kurdistan, to come together, to overcome the differences through dialogue and in an inclusive way, and really, to seize this opportunity that now exists of a shift to allow for Iraq to regain its position as a country, for the wellbeing of its people, and as a very important element in the region. Iraq can be a bridge between the two sides of the Gulf, and we have seen recently the agreement between Saudi Arabia and Iran, I think there are new opportunities for cooperation in the Gulf area, and I see Iraq very well positioned to be an engine of that cooperation. So, it is not only the wellbeing of the Iraqi people, it is not only the peace, stability, effective democracy, and prosperity of Iraq. It is the role of Iraq as a source of cooperation in a region that is one of the most sensitive and important regions of our world.
My last point, question about Iraq then I will ask a couple of quick questions about Syria, I know you have limited time and you are probably one of the busiest men on earth with all those global issues, is about something you have been, especially in the past, that you have been talking about a lot, which is the principle of sovereignty and respecting others borders because of what’s happening in Ukraine. But in Iraq, it has been, more than, especially in the past decade, Turkey and Syria have been, according to the Iraqi mission here at the United Nations, been violating the borders, shelling and bombing, even having political influence.
Our position is very clear. The territorial integrity of Iraq must be respected. This is our position and I had the occasion to reaffirm it very clearly in my visit to Baghdad.
Are you not concerned that this is becoming a norm beyond even Iraq? Countries basically going, whatever they do not like in their neighbor – alright let us start a military operation.
Unfortunately, we are seeing the multiplication of situations that are worrying. As you mentioned, of course the Russian invasion of Ukraine. But as I said, a central principle of the charter is the territorial integrity of states.
I will go quickly to Syria. More than a decade of a war, Mr. Secretary-General, now there is a huge stalemate. Do you see any hope there will be any political settlement in Syria anytime soon?
We should never lose hope, but we are far from the conditions allowing for a peaceful settlement of all the questions. Syria is today divided, we have in Syria different armies of different countries, we have many different interests related to Syria, and my appeal is for the Syrians to come together. If the Syrians do not come together, they risk to be a playground for the activities of others. Syrians need to overcome their differences. Syria is a fantastic cradle of civilizations. If you go to Aleppo, that unfortunately was now dramatically impacted by the earthquake and even the fortress, but when I visited, there was several layers of archeological research, several layers of several civilizations that have been shining in Syria. Syria is a generous country. I remember as High Commissioner of Refugees, Iraqi refugees in Syria, they were treated like nowhere else in the world. There were no camps, they were accepted by the community. I mean, the Syrian people deserve peace and my appeal for the Syrians – come together, do not let others decide your destiny.
And about the earthquake, Mr. Secretary-General, there are criticisms of the United Nations response to that. I want to quickly, very quickly explain that exact criticism on what it was about. As you know, for earthquake, for disaster, the first 72 hours is very important. The UN earthquake related response, this is a fact on the ground, did not reach there, it took weeks to reach there, while others could do that. Others including Saudis, Qataris, even from Kurdistan Region, they managed to use, basically, the cross-borders to get in. Why the United Nations, according to Martin Griffiths, as he said in his Twitter even, failed to send aid in a timely manner to northwest Syria?
I think it is important to look into the reality. The kind of aid that people need in 72 hours is rescue, and rescue is done by specialized teams with dogs and by equipment, heavy equipment, that the UN and UN agencies have not. You have seen all these people coming to Turkey from different countries. Unfortunately, they did not go to Syria, they came to Turkey, but this was not a UN problem, it was the reality on the ground. It was easier to go to Turkey, too. So, I fully understand the enormous frustration of the people in Syria, not seeing this immediate rescue operation taking place in Syria. But there, as I said, the UN would have no capacity. We do humanitarian aid, humanitarian aid in the traditional form of humanitarian aid – in shelter, in food, in health, in these aspects.
You have specialized teams in these disasters.
Sorry?
The United Nations has specialized teams in helping with disaster reliefs.
We have not, as I said, we have not rescue teams, and we have no rescue capacities, and we have not the equipment that are needed to move the rubble, this is not what the UN agencies are able to do, and so I fully understand the enormous frustration of people, seeing that it was not coming, and seeing that from different countries it was going to Turkey. But again, that was not a UN issue. The problem is, that the UN, as we speak, probably around 500 trucks of UN assistance have came, but the UN support system to Syria is based in Turkey exactly in the area that suffered the earthquake, and we had several problems and difficulties, several of our colleagues died. So, I mean, there were some difficulties in making things move, but they moved as quickly as possible. As soon as the roads were open, we started the movement, and we managed to get, also, from the Syrian government, the acceptance of a number of crossings that go beyond what the Security Council was, will be asking in the next few days. So, there were obviously failures, there were obviously difficulties. I do not think it is only the UN, I think it is the broader capacity of the international community to support a country like Syria with all the political divisions that exist, but we will do everything to support the Syrian people everywhere, and our appeal since the first moment was – let all forms of access be open because that is absolutely essential to support the Syrian people in this dramatic situation, and I can guarantee that we will do everything possible to be as effective as possible in solidarity with the people that I deeply admire. If we did not do as we would like to do in the beginning, and I fully understand the criticism, we are doing our best to compensate by increasing our capacity as much as possible with total commitment to the Syrian people.
Last question I want to ask about Syria is the issue of minorities and Kurds inside Syria and there are people saying what is happening in Syria with the Syrian state being as weak and all this chaos, there should be some sort of federal regions in the future. Do you think federalism should be on the agenda for the political future of Syria?
It is not for me to define what constitutional, there is a constitutional committee of Syrians that is not working as much we would like but that is up to them to be able to move into the definition of the Syrian constitution. I am not going to tell Syrians what they should do. What I can tell you is that when I was High Commissioner for Refugees, one of the things that I fought for and I had inclusive discussions with the President of Syria is the need to grand citizenship to the Kurdish population of Syria. They were stateless, as you know, and that has been one of the battles that I myself was engaged, because as High Commissioner for Refugees, I had a mandate from the General Assembly to deal with stateless problems, statelessness problems, and so the capacity for Syrian Kurds to have a full role, whatever the constitutional mechanism defined, a full role in the life of Syria, is something that I fought since, let us say, more than ten years ago.
Mr. Secretary-General, thank you so much for this opportunity. Thank you for your wishes for Newroz, and as in Kurdish we say “Jezhni Newrozt Piroz [Happy Newroz in English].” Thank you very much.
All the best, thank you very much.
The following transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Transcribed by Julian Bechocha
Rudaw: Thank you so much sir for this opportunity.
It is a pleasure. Allow me as we are approaching Newroz to wish to you and to all those who will be seeing us, Happy Newroz.
Thank you so much. Thank you very much. I want to ask in this interview about Iraq and Syria, especially earlier this month you spent two days in Iraq. But before that, I also want to point out an interesting fact about this interview – in the 77 years of the history of the United Nations, this is the first time the UN Secretary-General sits down with a Kurd, someone from Kurdistan for an interview. This, while …
It is probably the first, but it will not be the last.
I hope not. Thank you so much. This also speaks to the fact of the absence of Kurdish voice at the United Nations, as I am sure you are familiar with our history. A nation of nearly 60 million people and the land that was divided historically a century ago by European colonialism, those borders are still enforced by current international system. Do you think a lack of Kurdish voice in the United Nations makes the United Nations less diverse, less tolerant, and less just?
Now, we are extremely interested, as we have in the UN Iraqis, Syrians, Iranians, and Turkish. We are of course very much interested in the context of those national representations, all important ethnic groups are represented and in this sense, I have many Kurdish friends who would be delighted to have, from either of these countries, Kurdish elements in the UN, and whatever I can do, of course there are mechanisms of selection and whatever, but whatever I can do would be of course very much in favor, to take into account your observation.
Absolutely, and we go to your visit in Iraq. You spent two days in Iraq. You met everybody, including civil society, UN staff. I will start the question about the UN itself. UN has a very large program in Iraq, I would say a very expensive program in Iraq, that has an almost unusual unanimous backing by the Security Council with a clear mandate, and Iraq has many issues. Are you satisfied with the conduct of the UNAMI [United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq] and the United Nation programs there and do you think there can be more achieved by the United Nations in Iraq?
Well, I believe that UNAMI has been doing a good job. Nobody is perfect, we do not intend to say the UN is perfect in anything we do anywhere in the world, but I think that UNAMI gave a positive contribution to what is for us, extremely important, is that Iraq is able to re-emerge from all the problems that Iraq has known in the recent past, to re-emerge as a very important international actor and at the same time, creating the capacity to make its institutions work to the benefit of the Iraqi people. Iraq has natural resources, it is not a poor country, but it is very important to have the quality of governance and the unity in diversity, but the unity in diversity that is necessary for those resources to be fully used to the benefit of the population. So, I believe the role of UNAMI has been to give a contribution to help move in this direction, and I think that in this visit to Iraq, I could witness that there has been a very important progress in relation to the position of the country, and I think this is a moment of hope, a moment of hope that Iraq will be able to have a sustainable process of consolidation of its institutions, of solving its remaining problems, and of initiating a new process able to provide their citizens with all the basic services that they are entitled to receive and that the country has the resources to provide.
As we mentioned many resources in Iraq, but now the new one in Iraq is concerning for many Iraqis, is the issue of the impact of climate. This month, at the United Nations there is on the agenda a water conference, and Iraq is a prime example of the impact of climate change, in terms of drought, in terms of lack of water. Is there any plan by the United Nations international community to specifically help Iraqis as they feel the impact of climate change probably more than most countries around the world?
I think this must be in the center of international cooperation with Iraq in the, unfortunately, years to come. It is not a problem that will be solved easily. Climate change is moving very quickly, very fast, and let us be honest, the world has not yet been able to come together and to give the priority and the urgency that climate change requires, and so temperatures are going up, and we are at risk to see our limit – the limit of 1.5 degrees of temperature growth that we consider the maximum that the world can endure, the world can accept without even more tragic consequences – we are at risk to see that limit become irreversibly impossible if drastic action to reduce emissions is not taken in the short-term. So, there is one area, which is to actively engage in reducing emissions. The second area, which is linked to Iraq, is to increase the invest of international community in adaptation. What is adaptation, is the measures that the country can take to build resilience in relation to the impact of climate change, and from that point of view, we are insisting in the perspective of the next COP (Conference of States Party) of the agreement, we are insisting on the need to have a doubling of the financing for adaptation in support for developing countries. Now, Iraq on top of that, has a serious water problem, the water problem is not only about climate change, it is also about the volume of water that you receive from your neighbors, that has been decreasing in the recent past. And I would say, Mesopotamia was the very center of the Fertile Crescent, and that was where civilization was born, and civilization was born because agriculture was possible and agriculture was possible because of the two rivers, and Mesopotamia means the “land between two rivers,” and we cannot allow the land between two rivers to become a land without rivers, and I have to say that I think it is very important to create the conditions to make sure – and there is a dimension of international cooperation that is very important in that regard, and I particularly attest because I was Prime Minister of Portugal when we made a very important water agreement with Spain in relation to the management of our common rivers – so I think it will be very important to have a serious dialogue on these issues and at the same time, to have a support for Iraq to adopt the policies that are necessary to preserve, namely the farming capacity, in the valley of the Tigris and the Euphrates.
Absolutely, and one of the other big issues in Iraq that I come to is the issue of corruption, and it is not like any other country in the Middle East statistically, billions are being looted, the ruling class in every level are participating in this, according to neutral international reports about this, and that made them in a way, even immune to democracy. Mr. Secretary-General, right now the government in Iraq, the ones that are elected, were chosen from a party that lost the elections. This is the reality of Iraq, there is a certain of immunity by the elite because of this corruption that is happening, it is very systematic. What can the international community realistically do, and the United Nations can do about this?
First, there is an international convention on corruption, and there will be soon the Conference of States Party, and we had yesterday a very important meeting here with the so-called Global Compact, which means the private sector around the world that is supporting UN, and the main priority will be exactly the fight against corruption. And we will be ready to do everything possible to support a serious fight against corruption everywhere, but in particular in countries like Iraq. I must say, in my conversation with the prime minister, I was impressed by the fact that he is fully aware of the problem and that he can see that solving the problem is essential for Iraq to be able to fully take profit of the resources that are available and corruption is always, together with the illicit financial flows, with the money laundering, and with other, all other mechanisms, corruption is an element that completely undermines the possibilities of sustainable development of a country. So, I hope that Iraqis will come together and fight corruption and show corrupted people that they have no place in the management of the country.
And that’s what the Iraqis want to hear and hope for. One of the parts of your visit in Iraq was, you visited Erbil and also a refugee camp in the north, and before I go to that issue of Erbil-Baghdad relation, there was, six years ago, when you visited the Kurdistan Region, you had a meeting with President Masoud Barzani, president of the KDP [Kurdistan Democratic Party], although he does not have a government title, but is known to be the most influential Kurd in the Middle east and millions across the region follow him, so I was just curious as journalist to see that there was no meeting between you two. Was there a reason behind it?
It was a very short visit. So, I visited all those that are occupying now positions of responsibility in the government of the autonomous region of Kurdistan. But I would like to tell you something that, is really from the bottom of my heart. I, before even the fall of Saddam Hussein, I was involved in different moments in movements that add a strong solidarity with the Kurdish people. I remember the “Chemical Ali,” the horrible use of chemical weapons against the Iraqi, the Kurdish Iraqi population.
Tomorrow is the anniversary. Tomorrow is the anniversary of that attack, Halabja.
Yes, and this is something that we need to keep in our memory, because it was something absolutely intolerable. Now, I remember that I had the chance to know Jalal Talabani from the past, even relations related to previous activities that I have had. I had many contacts when I was High Commissioner for Refugees with Masoud Barzani, and I see these two men as two very important symbols of, in their unity. The way they work together, two very important symbols of the modern autonomous region of Kurdistan and the Kurdish people. My appeal is for the unity they presented to be preserved in Erbil, Sulaimani, in the other cities of the Region. I think that unity is very important. At the same time, It is very important, I was encouraged in my conversations with the president and the prime minister in Erbil and in my conversations in Baghdad, I was encouraged, there is a political will to solve in the next few months the pending issues – oil, budget, resource allocations – we will do everything possible to support these efforts. We need to stabilize the relationship between Erbil and Baghdad and we need to do everything possible for Iraqis in general but also in particular Kurds in the autonomous region of Kurdistan, to come together, to overcome the differences through dialogue and in an inclusive way, and really, to seize this opportunity that now exists of a shift to allow for Iraq to regain its position as a country, for the wellbeing of its people, and as a very important element in the region. Iraq can be a bridge between the two sides of the Gulf, and we have seen recently the agreement between Saudi Arabia and Iran, I think there are new opportunities for cooperation in the Gulf area, and I see Iraq very well positioned to be an engine of that cooperation. So, it is not only the wellbeing of the Iraqi people, it is not only the peace, stability, effective democracy, and prosperity of Iraq. It is the role of Iraq as a source of cooperation in a region that is one of the most sensitive and important regions of our world.
My last point, question about Iraq then I will ask a couple of quick questions about Syria, I know you have limited time and you are probably one of the busiest men on earth with all those global issues, is about something you have been, especially in the past, that you have been talking about a lot, which is the principle of sovereignty and respecting others borders because of what’s happening in Ukraine. But in Iraq, it has been, more than, especially in the past decade, Turkey and Syria have been, according to the Iraqi mission here at the United Nations, been violating the borders, shelling and bombing, even having political influence.
Our position is very clear. The territorial integrity of Iraq must be respected. This is our position and I had the occasion to reaffirm it very clearly in my visit to Baghdad.
Are you not concerned that this is becoming a norm beyond even Iraq? Countries basically going, whatever they do not like in their neighbor – alright let us start a military operation.
Unfortunately, we are seeing the multiplication of situations that are worrying. As you mentioned, of course the Russian invasion of Ukraine. But as I said, a central principle of the charter is the territorial integrity of states.
I will go quickly to Syria. More than a decade of a war, Mr. Secretary-General, now there is a huge stalemate. Do you see any hope there will be any political settlement in Syria anytime soon?
We should never lose hope, but we are far from the conditions allowing for a peaceful settlement of all the questions. Syria is today divided, we have in Syria different armies of different countries, we have many different interests related to Syria, and my appeal is for the Syrians to come together. If the Syrians do not come together, they risk to be a playground for the activities of others. Syrians need to overcome their differences. Syria is a fantastic cradle of civilizations. If you go to Aleppo, that unfortunately was now dramatically impacted by the earthquake and even the fortress, but when I visited, there was several layers of archeological research, several layers of several civilizations that have been shining in Syria. Syria is a generous country. I remember as High Commissioner of Refugees, Iraqi refugees in Syria, they were treated like nowhere else in the world. There were no camps, they were accepted by the community. I mean, the Syrian people deserve peace and my appeal for the Syrians – come together, do not let others decide your destiny.
And about the earthquake, Mr. Secretary-General, there are criticisms of the United Nations response to that. I want to quickly, very quickly explain that exact criticism on what it was about. As you know, for earthquake, for disaster, the first 72 hours is very important. The UN earthquake related response, this is a fact on the ground, did not reach there, it took weeks to reach there, while others could do that. Others including Saudis, Qataris, even from Kurdistan Region, they managed to use, basically, the cross-borders to get in. Why the United Nations, according to Martin Griffiths, as he said in his Twitter even, failed to send aid in a timely manner to northwest Syria?
I think it is important to look into the reality. The kind of aid that people need in 72 hours is rescue, and rescue is done by specialized teams with dogs and by equipment, heavy equipment, that the UN and UN agencies have not. You have seen all these people coming to Turkey from different countries. Unfortunately, they did not go to Syria, they came to Turkey, but this was not a UN problem, it was the reality on the ground. It was easier to go to Turkey, too. So, I fully understand the enormous frustration of the people in Syria, not seeing this immediate rescue operation taking place in Syria. But there, as I said, the UN would have no capacity. We do humanitarian aid, humanitarian aid in the traditional form of humanitarian aid – in shelter, in food, in health, in these aspects.
You have specialized teams in these disasters.
Sorry?
The United Nations has specialized teams in helping with disaster reliefs.
We have not, as I said, we have not rescue teams, and we have no rescue capacities, and we have not the equipment that are needed to move the rubble, this is not what the UN agencies are able to do, and so I fully understand the enormous frustration of people, seeing that it was not coming, and seeing that from different countries it was going to Turkey. But again, that was not a UN issue. The problem is, that the UN, as we speak, probably around 500 trucks of UN assistance have came, but the UN support system to Syria is based in Turkey exactly in the area that suffered the earthquake, and we had several problems and difficulties, several of our colleagues died. So, I mean, there were some difficulties in making things move, but they moved as quickly as possible. As soon as the roads were open, we started the movement, and we managed to get, also, from the Syrian government, the acceptance of a number of crossings that go beyond what the Security Council was, will be asking in the next few days. So, there were obviously failures, there were obviously difficulties. I do not think it is only the UN, I think it is the broader capacity of the international community to support a country like Syria with all the political divisions that exist, but we will do everything to support the Syrian people everywhere, and our appeal since the first moment was – let all forms of access be open because that is absolutely essential to support the Syrian people in this dramatic situation, and I can guarantee that we will do everything possible to be as effective as possible in solidarity with the people that I deeply admire. If we did not do as we would like to do in the beginning, and I fully understand the criticism, we are doing our best to compensate by increasing our capacity as much as possible with total commitment to the Syrian people.
Last question I want to ask about Syria is the issue of minorities and Kurds inside Syria and there are people saying what is happening in Syria with the Syrian state being as weak and all this chaos, there should be some sort of federal regions in the future. Do you think federalism should be on the agenda for the political future of Syria?
It is not for me to define what constitutional, there is a constitutional committee of Syrians that is not working as much we would like but that is up to them to be able to move into the definition of the Syrian constitution. I am not going to tell Syrians what they should do. What I can tell you is that when I was High Commissioner for Refugees, one of the things that I fought for and I had inclusive discussions with the President of Syria is the need to grand citizenship to the Kurdish population of Syria. They were stateless, as you know, and that has been one of the battles that I myself was engaged, because as High Commissioner for Refugees, I had a mandate from the General Assembly to deal with stateless problems, statelessness problems, and so the capacity for Syrian Kurds to have a full role, whatever the constitutional mechanism defined, a full role in the life of Syria, is something that I fought since, let us say, more than ten years ago.
Mr. Secretary-General, thank you so much for this opportunity. Thank you for your wishes for Newroz, and as in Kurdish we say “Jezhni Newrozt Piroz [Happy Newroz in English].” Thank you very much.
All the best, thank you very much.
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