Sacrificing Afghan women’s liberties will cause ‘anarchy’: human rights chief

Latifa Sultani, director of women’s affairs at the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, warns that any peace deal with the Taliban which sacrifices the rights of women will lead to “anarchy”. 

Speaking to Rudaw English correspondent Robert Edwards in the Afghan capital Kabul in early September, Sultani says women’s gains since the fall of the Taliban are fragile and that far more needs to be done in the isolated rural corners of the country to protect women and girls. 

She says there must be no compromising on women’s hard-won civil liberties for the sake of peace with the Taliban. 

Click here to watch Rudaw’s feature length documentary – Afghanistan: The Missing Peace

READ MORE: Afghanistan: The Missing Peace – Part II: ‘When women are in danger, it’s not peace – it’s surrender’

Rudaw: Were women’s rights ignored in the Doha peace process?

Latifa Sultani: Women’s rights are a very important topic in the current condition of Afghanistan, as women’s rights are written in the constitution of Afghanistan, and all the privileges that were granted as the privileges of a citizen, fortunately they were considered in Afghanistan’s laws both in civil policy and criminal policy. Afghanistan is also a member of the United Nations. International treaties of human rights also emphasise that women have equal rights to men. As the peace talks became a long process, that peace discussion between the United States of America and armed groups opposed to the Afghan government, specifically the Taliban, it has been going on for a while, and women’s expectations and the expectations of human rights organisations are that during the peace talks, the achievements of women’s rights in the last 18 years created after the fall of the Taliban, these achievements either in laws, policies, or litigation, or mechanisms, and those policies which were created for the betterment of human rights in Afghanistan, must not be ignored. This is an extremely important topic, because women, as half of population of this country, must actively take part in the development of this country. Women’s voices for many years, the voice which effects the tranquility of Afghan women, were not heard clearly. The peace process is an important and effective process for people’s lives, especially Afghan women’s lives, as Afghan society is a male oriented society. On the other hand, Afghans are interested in reconciliation and the maintenance of security. Therefore, those who want to take part in this process as representatives of political parties or the Afghan government, most of their requests are that the Taliban ceases its war and to convince them to get the Taliban to negotiate. Maybe women’s right are not very important to them and for the male oriented society of Afghanistan. But pressure from Afghan women, human rights activists, and the Human Right Commission is on women’s active presence in the peace talks. The reason is that this peace must be prominent and stable. And peace should be based on justice. If we don’t consider the expectations and requests of women who form half of society in the peace talks, we won’t see a stable peace in Afghanistan. Half of the population will be paralysed and they would have to stay at home again. The gender gap will deepen and we will witness anarchy, which is not for the good of Afghans.

You are saying that women’s rights have been ignored in the Doha talks?

Still we don’t have a clear message of commitment to women’s rights according to Afghanistan’s constitution and other policies and laws considered in Afghanistan. And guarantees of gender equality are not agreed. They have talked about women’s rights. They have limited women’s rights. For example, they have said that women can go to school but their school must be separate from boys. It means that according to Islam women must live in Afghanistan for work and education. This interpretation is still not clear for us. Which Islamic rules? Those Islamic rules that Taliban showed us 18 years ago, they want women to be part of this structure? Or the open-minded and practical interpretation of Muslims from the Islamic faith? If we look deeply, we would see that the Islamic faith doesn’t have any opposition to women’s rights, especially education. It’s clear in the Islamic faith: “Learning is a must for men and women”. And women’s travel outside Afghanistan is completely clear. We have a saying from Imams and religious figures which means ‘learn knowledge’. In the past, the most distant place was China in which it was called alsiyn in Arabic. This means that women could educate themselves outside Afghanistan. Also they have finished their primary education. As you can see, religious figures also worked, like Khadijah bint Khuwaylid (Muhammad’s wife). She was a strong and famous business woman, it was not banned at the beginning of Islam. The veil as interpreted according to armed groups opposed to the Afghan government and also according to the fundamentalists inside Afghanistan. Their primary focus is to limit women’s rights. Although the philosophy of the veil in Islam is emphasised to protect women. It means if women are protected, it is not necessary that women take a confident, a man who should be with a woman to go shopping, go to school or the bazaar or abroad, and the existence of a man for a woman is just for protection, not a limitation. 

Has the Afghan government done enough to promote women’s rights and participation? 

Plenty of great things have been done for the development of women’s rights after the fall of the Taliban. You can see the gender equality and elimination of prejudice against women in Afghanistan’s constitution. We have strong legal mechanisms that support women against prejudice. Article 22 of the constitution says there is no prejudice or privilege among citizens of Afghanistan. Men and women are equal according to the law. Also Afghanistan’s constitution forces the Afghan government to support families. The government is specifically forced to support the child and mother. The legal rights of women have been discussed in the constitution. Election laws in Afghanistan encourage the Afghan government to implement positive discrimination. It is a temporary action which is for the good of women. You can see that a portion of parliament members are Afghan women. Civil society organisations are governed by women. You can see women’s presence in political, economic, and social aspects. Millions of girls go to school and we have hundreds of female university students in Afghanistan. There are even some students who have several children. Besides being responsible for chores and the household, they are interested in learning at universities, they are interested in learning in schools, they are interested in working in offices, they both work and guarantee their marital responsibilities. These are great achievements. But these achievements are very fragile. Some achievements are threatened by security challenges. In isolated places in Afghanistan, in some districts of Afghanistan, there is not full security. And we witness women being stoned and flogged. Women get shot by armed groups opposed to the government of Afghanistan. We witness field courts, and worst of all we witness murder by family members. Women are murdered by the closest members of their family, which is called honour killing. It means due to cultural limitations, girls are banned from going to school, they are deprived of going to university. If they want to go to school, they are told you are too young. There are economic problems in Afghanistan. They try their best to coerce their daughters to get married as soon as possible and they never consider the legal recommendations. They never consider the age gap between the boy and girl. Education is not considered, girls’ satisfaction is not considered, marriage is not registered yet. We still witness the death of mothers. Violence against women still exists in Afghanistan. That is why the Human Rights Commission of Afghanistan is seriously worried about this, that those achievements that were gained in 18 years, these achievements are fragile, and it could be ruined by small changes in the political situation and economic situation of Afghanistan.

So you believe women’s rights and participation have only been promoted in Kabul but not in other provinces?

Some activities have been done in some secure provinces, including the central provinces of Afghanistan. But we are worried about delivering services to remote provinces of Afghanistan. In remote provinces of Afghanistan, women are still not allowed to go outside the home. We witness that in remote provinces of Afghanistan which are insecure. Some women even escape from their homes barefoot. They come by taxi and try to come to the Human Rights Commission and try to raise their voice and ask for justice. These are all the effects of solving their family problems. They know that if they go out of their home, they will be killed by their close family members like their father or their brothers or husband. They would rather escape from their family than suffer violence. They escape and try to get to the commission.

What has the Human Rights Commission been doing in the villages? What have you witnessed?

The Human Rights Commission, from its establishment, has created a department by the name of supporting women’s rights. Our goal is the development of women’s rights in Afghanistan. We work on specific goals. Our goal is to lead national and local programs for recovering women’s rights. This commission is responsible for leading them. We are responsible for leading many committees – committee for the elimination of violence against women, committee to combat compulsory regeneration, and support against compulsory medical examinations, and also a committee to combat the harassment of other committees which are active for the good of women’s rights locally and nationally. The Human Rights Commission leads those committees. These committees exist for reducing domestic violence against women and for the condemnation and denouncement of violations of women’s rights, like field courts, the stoning of women in public, raping women, and other types of violence. It has taken a stand at times by issuing press releases in order to enlighten people and build their capacity. The commission has numerous programs for women’s rights. We have trained nearly 700,000 participants. We meet in schools, teacher training, universities and workshops with common people. We had workshops with police and women in villages. It is more than 700,000 and fortunately 40 percent of participants were women. In order to bring gender balance into the structure of the commission, the commission has a specific gender policy and we try our best according to this policy to establish a safe working environment inside the commission and release notices in governmental offices in order to establish a safe environment and consider gender equality in the structure of the commission and while hiring new employees and consider it in capacity building programs as well. Also, the commission has a major role in releasing notices in policies and laws. We played a major role in drafting laws for families and worked together with civil society, and we had a close partnership with the government. We have representation in the judiciary and litigation committee. We have had a close partnership with committees of lawyers since drafting the law on the prohibition of violence against women. We tried hard to reflect human rights in Afghanistan, specifically women’s rights, but in other laws like election laws, Afghan labor law, and the Afghan penal code, which is one of the major achievements of the Afghan government in recent years. The commission’s focus was on gender equality. The commission has got appropriate positions and partnerships. There were serious problems with recent laws. It was mentioned that no women has the right to go outside without the permission of her husband. The commission has serious positions and could adjust this law by releasing notices according to the constitution of Afghanistan and according to the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women that the Afghan government has passed. It means they are committed to implementing all articles of the convention. Some laws are in complete opposition to the constitution of Afghanistan. In this case, the commission released a notice in order to prevent the limitation of women’s rights. The commission plays a major role in monitoring as well, like monitoring the human rights of women. We release reports annually based on how much access women have to the services of the Afghan government. What is the death rate among mothers? How many mothers have access to their right to health? How many qualified women are deprived of jobs? How many girls eligible for school are deprived of going to school? Women’s right are a significant issue for the Human Rights Commission in Afghanistan. We monitor detention facilities and prisons on a monthly basis. In order to build safe houses, the commission has released many notices. We monitor on a monthly basis but when necessary it will be on weekly basis. We introduce many cases to safe houses. And we have monitoring in defence and security organisations. We interview and build the capacity of security forces.

How do you support women’s rights in the defence and security forces of Afghanistan? How do you protect women, children and civilians generally during a time of conflict? 

So that women are not harassed, a safe and ideal environment must be established for women in police forces. The commission has done revolutionary work in this area. And we have also seriously monitored human rights cases in the justice organisations of Afghanistan. In this case, the Human Right Commission has performed numerous activities and built capacity. 

If the Taliban returns or takes part in government, do you think all of your efforts will be trampled on? Or has the Taliban changed? 

Well, according to the experiences of the peace process over the years that we have monitored, the Taliban’s behaviour and activities have not changed. It is okay that representatives of the Taliban show flexibility during the peace talks, but their activities have not changed. You see, one of our kind and committed colleagues who was head of the commission in Ghor was captured in Chandees district by the Taliban. He was held captive for two days and he was shot on Thursday. This shows that the Taliban are not committed to the values of human rights. In spite of releasing many notices, we have told them that our colleague is just working for human rights and he fights to establish the values of human rights for a safe environment in Afghanistan. Our job is irrelevant to politics. But they didn’t pay any attention and mercilessly shot our colleague. Apart from this, two of our colleagues were hit by bombs. Those bombs were planted by the Taliban in order to kill them. Due to another attack by the Taliban, the head of the commission in Ghor was killed, his head was cut off. Another member of the leadership, Commissioner Hamida Barmakee, was murdered by armed groups opposed to the government in the Finance Store. This means it has been 17 years since the fall of the Taliban in Afghanistan and we haven’t witness any flexibility from the Taliban side. The highways of Afghanistan have become passages of death for citizens. They kill students, employees, police who work for public order. They kill human rights’ activists, civil society activists, they even killed those women who stand in elections and use their political rights. They even check women on the street to see who they are in touch with. They even suspect those they are with. They judge right away and convict without considering justice, they stone and shoot everyone. In our opinion, the Taliban’s behaviour hasn’t changed yet. And the peace process is not a serious process that should go ahead quickly. This is a long journey. It means the sides at war, specifically armed groups opposed to government of Afghanistan, do not have adequate commitment to peace. From one side they talk about peace and from another side they kill people. This proves that they do not have enough determination for peace in Afghanistan. They look at this process like a game. And the victims of this process are the people of Afghanistan. The Human Rights Commission has, with respect to the constitution of Afghanistan, and with respect to the values of human rights, several years of achievements with the sides of the war, especially the armed groups opposed to the government. They should be held responsible for what they have done. Being responsible is a norm, and we fight to hold these people responsible. And our voice will never be silenced, neither inside Afghanistan nor outside Afghanistan. That means either locally or internationally. We ask for those people who violated hundreds of human rights rules in Afghanistan to face the courts. It doesn’t matter if those people are inside the government of Afghanistan or those people opposed to the government of Afghanistan who are currently fighting with the Afghan government.

So you are saying the Taliban’s ideology hasn’t changed?

Experience shows that the Taliban’s thoughts are not yet trustworthy, because the Taliban kill people on a daily basis. From another side, we are aware that the Taliban releases notices on its website claiming they don’t harm civilians. But we see suicide attacks in crowded places of Afghanistan on a daily basis. You have seen the explosions at the wedding and in the mosques. The explosion in Farah, the explosion in Ghazni. And the Taliban have sacrificed children, and they have captured our colleague and shot him. What is the meaning of these actions and behaviours? When a person believes in a set of values, belief means respecting that thing. It means you never go in the opposite direction. 

Will women sacrifice their rights for the sake of peace in Afghanistan?

No, there will be no sacrifice. If the values of women’s rights and human rights are ignored for the sake of peace in the peace talks, that is not a peace. That is just fire under ashes. It will be just a failed contract that will bring anarchy to Afghanistan that it will not be possible to compensate.

Are you optimistic about peace?

In the current situation, no. Because it is a long term process and both sides of the war are not convinced and do not have adequate determination for peace, because they have not reconciled and thrown down their weapons. We have some concerns about the peace talks in their current condition because it has become a rapid process, because peace is not paved socially and culturally in Afghanistan, and this peace process is going ahead very fast. They don’t have serious determination for peace, especially the armed groups opposed to the government don’t have serious determination for peace in Afghanistan. On one hand they talk about peace and on the other they kill people. It means they are mentally not ready. And from another hand they try very hard to achieve their political goals. They never think about those things they have done. Afghans are really harmed by this war and they never think about healing people’s scars and how to compensate the damages and how to make a place in people’s hearts. They just follow their goals. They never bother themselves when they attack, they specify a place. If they have a military target, why do they kill civilians? They are never cautious and there is no proportion in their attacks. In order to destroy a police headquarters, they use weapons that break windows and the glass of houses adjacent to the police headquarters. They kill tens of civilians and destroy schools. Hundreds of university students are harmed. Where is the proportion? They never care for the rules of human rights and never pay attention to international commitments. 

Do you predict further civil war if the Taliban return to power? 

Certainly, if people’s scars are not healed, if they don’t listen to victims of war. People are in pain and no one is able to push people, those people whose families are killed, or they can’t push those women or parents whose husbands and children have been killed by the Taliban to reconcile with them, to accept them, that they will rule you. This will cause a civil war. Because Afghans are still not unanimous. Still we are witnessing opposition inside the government of Afghanistan. However, this doesn’t belong to us. It is a political issue. But these issues result in violations of human rights. And we have to convince the Afghan government to provide opportunities for reconciliation. Because it is the responsibility of the Afghan government to provide security for citizens.

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