Turkey's new Ambassador to Baghdad, Ali Riza Guney, told Rudaw's Hevidar Zana last week that the Iraqi government’s visa conditions for Turkish investors should be “corrected,” adding that some investors have been unable to get a visa for several months.
The ambassador said that trade volume between Baghdad and Ankara is $20 billion but this has obstacles, such as Iraqi government’s visa conditions for Turkish investors.
“There are Turkish investors in Iraq who have invested hundreds of millions of dollars. Believe me, they have not been able to get visas for 6-8 months, and they have asked for our assistance. There are visas which cost up to $1,500 per individual. These sensitivities definitely create obstacles for our investors, our business world and businessmen. These have to be removed,”said Guney.
He also said that the “success story” of Turkish investment in Erbil can be repeated in other parts of Iraq as well.
The diplomat also talked about the opening of a new border crossing with Iraq, the fight against the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), the Shingal agreement, and the condition of Turkmens in Iraq and the Kurdistan Region.
The following interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
Rudaw:I would like to begin with economic relations. Trade volume between Turkey and Iraq has reportedly reached $20 billion. This figure was something Turkey had hoped for. Do you plan to take it to a higher level?
When the President of Iraq, Mr Barham Salih, visited our country in early 2019, he and our president set this $20 billion target. We were able to overcome this despite the difficult conditions of the pandemic. If we can remove some artificial obstacles in front of our bilateral trade, this figure can be increased very easily step by step- as long as the two sides can show this will and demonstrate the necessary infrastructure, ground and will because we have complementary economies. We already have cultural, social and human ties and geographical proximity. We are neighboring countries. If we build on these, our business world can mutually increase this figure step by step.
How and in which areas do you plan to prioritize expanding the trade volume?
Now, in terms of trade, the most significant infrastructure is that the commercial arteries should be open. Trade volume between Iraq and Turkey is $20 billion but it is interesting that we only have one border crossing and all this trade is conducted through this border crossing. Now we are talking with our Iraqi interlocutors and our interlocutors in the Iraqi Kurdish Regional Government [Kurdistan Regional Government] in order to increase these arteries and routes, and we agree on this. [We also need] railways, and we have to increase the border crossings so that we are not tied to a single border crossing. As I said, there are artificial obstacles. This mostly affects our investors. When I saw Erbil, I understood how important the [Turkish] investment is. I have shared this with our interlocutors in Baghdad as well. Turkish contractors in Iraq can achieve the success story they have in Erbil all over Iraq. This requires some consideration. One of these is the loosening and facilitation of customs tariffs and some inspection formalities. However, another point that I have to underline with sensitivity is that the visa conditions applied to Turkish investors must be corrected. There are Turkish investors in Iraq who have invested hundreds of millions of dollars. Believe me, they have not been able to get visas for 6-8 months, and they have asked for our assistance. There are visas which cost up to $1,500 per individual. These sensitivities definitely create obstacles for our investors, our business world and businessmen. These have to be removed.
You also mentioned that a single border gate cannot handle this trade volume. When you first came to Iraq, you emphasized that the Turkey-Tal Afar-Mosul border gate should be opened. With your visit to the Kurdistan Region, are you aiming to convince the Kurdistan Region on the Ovakoy border crossing? Does this visit have such a purpose?
The target is not Ovakoy. The Ovakoy border crossing is one of the five border crossings that had already been agreed between the parties at the technical meetings in 2014. The important thing here is: Of course, the number of our border crossings should be increased because what is healthy is that, as two neighboring countries with a trade volume of 20 billion dollars, we absolutely should have more than one border gate. However, the important thing here is the Tal Afar-Mosul connection, as you underlined. Our aim is to activate that route and inject economic dynamism. Look, some time ago this region experienced Daesh [Islamic State] terror. Areas where Daesh terror originated were undeveloped and lacked employment and investment. One of these areas is Tal Afar. Unfortunately, Tal Afar used to be an incubation center for Daesh after Syria. If this area is activated through the economic dynamism of the business world, the youth will seek jobs rather than holding guns. Working youths will never join terror [groups]. Now, our aim is that our business world can directly reach Tal Afar and Mosul, just as it did to Erbil, and thereby bring economic vitality there.
The investment is organized industrial zones, an airport in Mosul, and an airport in Kirkuk as well. They stimulate traffic between the business worlds, bring prosperity to the region, bring social development and, most importantly, sustainable stability. Therefore, this is not an Ovakoy-focused project. This definitely aims to open a channel for our business world with the road going down from our border of Tal Afar area and to invest there. We share this openly and in a very transparent way with our interlocutors in the [Kurdistan] Regional Government. We've never had any hidden agendas anyway. I hope we'll be on the same page about this soon.
Did you get a positive response on this?
There are various models. These models will definitely be discussed by delegations at technical levels. However, the objective is the same - the development and stabilization of Iraq as a whole, no matter if it is Erbil, Duhok, Tal Afar or Mosul. Because an issue that originates in Tal Afar will first affect Erbil as well… We will work together in order to prevent this.
I would like to draw your attention to the result of a research conducted by SETA think tank in 2019. In the research, it is said that the opening of the Ovakoy border gate does not only have an economic purpose but it is implied that Turkey no longer wants to conduct its relations with Iraq through the Kurdistan Region and Barzani. My question is; Doesn't this message mean that Ovakoy has a greater purpose than commercial reasons?
This is a critical question because there are a lot of misunderstandings about the issue. We conduct our relations with Iraq directly, rather than doing it through the Iraqi Kurdish Regional Government. We have direct channels and an embassy. The Regional Government is a legitimate administration as per the [Iraqi] constitution. We also have relations with it through our consulate general. This is the case everywhere in Iraq. This is also the case with other provinces. We do not use one party to erect relations with another party. There are various circles and various comments can be made, which is quite natural in bilateral international relations. I want to repeat that Turkish Republic does not have any secret agenda. Our relations with the Iraqi Kurdish Regional Administration are very important, including strategic dimensions. But of course, we have always prioritized the stability and well-being of Iraq within its territorial integrity. We have seen and valued this unity as important in terms of politics and humanity, and our policies are within this framework.
But the Kurdistan Region does not have a representation in Turkey. Is there any discussion or an official decision in this regard?
I believe you mean the Iraqi Kurdish Regional Government office.
Yes.
There have been various contacts in this regard. The demands were discussed in the meetings. Studies and evaluation at a technical level are being done so that a political decision is made. This process is currently in progress.
There was an interview you did with Anadolu Agency when you started working in Iraq. You emphasized that the Turkmens should be given importance there, and at the same time, you stated that the Turkmens had faced a great massacre in the past, and that they were one of the guarantors of the integrity of Iraq by opposing the Kurdistan independence referendum in 2017. How do you evaluate the situation of Turkmens now? The Kurdistan Regional Government has opened schools for Turkmens to receive education in their mother tongue language since 1992. They have 5 seats in the parliament and a minister in the government. Do you think the Turkmens are in a good condition in the Kurdistan Region?
They are the third main group in Iraq in terms of population, and the second in the Iraqi Kurdish Regional Government. I prefer to call them Iraqi Turks because some of them migrated from Central Asia to Anatolia, some to the Balkans, some to the Middle East, and some to Iraq. These are our kin. We look at them as relatives and we underline this. But this is not a point of view aimed at disrupting the integrity of Iraq. Iraqi Turks have always been at the forefront for the unity and integrity of Iraq, and they have fought for the salvation of Iraq, but throughout history, they are the most victimized group for various reasons. There are various reasons but I do not want to mention them here. However, due to this victimization, unfortunately, their influence does not make their status as the third largest group.
I went to Kirkuk, I am in Erbil. The table I see is obviously not compatible with the historical process. The situation of the Iraqi Turks here is not compatible with their historical past. I made my first visit to Najaf and Karbala. I described Kirkuk as the pupil of Iraq’s eyes because it is the symbol of the culture of peaceful coexistence with Kurds, Arabs and Turkmen I came to Erbil as well. From now on, my visits will continue to other provinces.
However, what I said about Iraqi Turks and Turkmens is because we see that those who defended [Iraqi] territorial integrity and unity the most suffered the most. Therefore, if we, as the Republic of Turkey, want sustainable stability in Iraq, this victimized and oppressed people must be supported. They have never worked against any other group, and have never had a separatist agenda. I will not go into the subject of the Kurdish Regional Government's referendum. I think it's very clear where they [Kurds] made mistakes and what lessons were learned. But there is are Turkmen who live in peace with the Kurds and Arabs and respect their territorial integrity. Is their representation in the Iraqi Kurdish Regional Government sufficient? We visited Mr. Aydin Maruf today. We have a minister. The Kurds are the second largest group in Iraq in terms of population. How many Kurdish ministers do we have? The number is quite large. So, how many ministers do the Turkmen, the second largest group in the Iraqi Kurdish Regional Government, have? They have one minister. They can only move within the quota reserved for them. Do you think this is enough? If we are talking about the second element here and a group that lived in fraternity with the Kurds, it is not enough.
You talked about Kirkuk, you also visited it. As you know, Kirkuk is in the disputed areas. According to Article 140 of the Iraqi Constitution, the fate of said regions should be determined in three stages between the Kurdistan Region and Iraq. How do you see the situation in Kirkuk right now? Does Turkey support the implementation of Article 140?
Kirkuk is such a sensitive and important place that if stability is achieved in Kirkuk, this stability will spread to the whole country. If there is instability, insecurity, and problems in Kirkuk, it will spread to the whole country. That’s why we call it the pupil of the eye. Kirkuk is where people like Arabs, Kurds and Turkmens can live together. But unfortunately, when it is pulled from side to side for various political reasons, the problem begins to emerge. It would not be suitable for me as the Ambassador of the Republic of Turkey to speak on behalf of the people of Kirkuk. But we wish that a solution that will be agreed by the people of Kirkuk and will ensure sustainable stability can be put to a vote of confidence in the eyes of the people and a referendum can be held - as long as all three groups can sit down and find a common solution and they will agree on in a way that does not dominate each other. As the Republic of Turkey, we can only support this. Because the key to sustainable stability is already here. Other ways have been tried so far. One faction came and tried to beat the others, this time the opposite happened. You have seen it for years, unfortunately, that there has not been a fully agreed stability between the parties in Kirkuk. Now, let the parties come together, sit down and conduct their negotiations in peace. The solution they came up with, the solution that will be for the salvation of Iraq, is of course our acceptance.
Can the Shingal agreement be implemented if Iran opposes it?
Iran is one of the important actors in the region. Of course, it is one of the indispensable elements and actors for the integrity and stability of Iraq. I am sure the stability of Iraq is as important for and desired by Iran as it is for the Republic of Turkey. But Shingal is not on the Iranian border. It is a region where PKK terrorism is nesting. The Yazidis were once victimized by Daesh but the PKK entered [Shingal] on the grounds of saving it from Daesh but it victimized the Yazidis as well. Anyhow, I think the permeability between terrorist organizations is stunning. After a while, you see that there are no racial, religious or ethnic differences between these terrorist organizations. Today the PKK is bringing former Daesh members into its line in Shingal and is victimizing the Yazidis once again. Hundreds of thousands of Yazidis are not going back to their homes because the PKK is present there. It should be clear now that we are talking about the Shingal agreement that the PKK and their supporters are preventing from behind the scenes. Not even one step has been taken regarding this matter. PKK terror has been attacking Turkey for the past 40 years, killing more than 40,000 Turkish citizens. In Turkey, every household has a martyr because of the PKK. Shingal is a place where Turkey’s interest lays because of the PKK hence why no one can say that Turkey doesn’t have a say here. Turkey has a say in Iraq’s stability, sovereignty and in getting rid of the terrorist organizations. The PKK presence hurts us. What we desire is for the Iraqi central government and the regional government to fight the terror in its territories whether it’s Daesh, PKK or any other terror organization. We don’t aim to violate Iraq’s airspace or enter their land. We are very satisfied with our borders, as long as we don’t get terror attacks from other countries.
This question is regarding this topic. The Washington administration specifically believes that Turkey’s operations against the PKK in the Kurdistan Region should be conducted in cooperation with the Iraqi government. Meaning, Turkey should collaborate with Iraq for these operations. Do you cooperate with Baghdad?
There is no need for America’s defense on this operation. We express our desire to cooperate with Iraq at every chance we get. We have various channels that we work on together, including the security and military channels. What is important for us in this phase is for the Iraqi government and regional government to fight the terror in its land, without giving other countries the chance to do the fight for them. When they don’t stand against terror in this way, the sides that are harmed by the terrorism will interfere. This is the Republic of Turkey’s problem. The Republic of Turkey wants the Iraqi and Regional governments to fight and clear their land from the terror organization that attack Turkey and kills its citizens. The message is clear. When that is done, I will have no business in Iraq’s land. We have reached this point because it hasn’t been done. The fight against terrorism will continue, we wish Iraq does it for itself.
About the operations, Iraq’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that they won’t allow Iraq’s land to be used for attacks against Turkey, and that Turkey needs to find a political route. Iraq doesn’t want to be the playground of the neighboring countries. Some factions think that time should be given to Iraq to eliminate the threats to Turkey. Is Turkey considering taking a break from its operations in Iraq to find time?
Iraq’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs has made a very good point. Article 7 of the Iraqi constitution clearly says that Iraq doesn’t allow attacking other countries from its territory. This is a clear constitutional law that says you can’t let terrorist organizations stay on your land. Its Iraq’s duty to endure this fight, its constitution stipulates that… Once an opportunity was given to the PKK terrorist organization, they could not use it and that process is over. Now, will the Iraqi government be given time to fight? For almost 40 years, let's say from the beginning of the 1990s, we have known this for more than 30 years. We are talking about a terrorist organization that has been on Iraqi soil for 30 years. It is no longer a question of giving time or chance to terrorism. Our aim is to establish the sovereignty of Iraq as soon as possible. We also have told them that we are ready for all kinds of help and that we will give all kinds of support for this. PKK terrorism has become a common enemy. Today it is fighting the Peshmerga, it is killing the Peshmerga. It is challenging the Iraqi central government in Shingal. Under the name of a refugee camp in Makhmur, it has turned that place into an incubation center, poisoning the youth and children as well as recruiting them to its ranks. It also takes them to the mountains in Qandil. It also seeks to enter Kirkuk. These are the territory of the central government, right? We are talking about this terrorist organization.
We do not have the luxury of any negotiation or time. The Iraqi government has to fight terrorism itself; we will support it when asked for. But inside our borders, we won’t indulge the terror organization that kills our citizens. I call on our Iraqi brothers, the [KRG] administration and citizens, I want to say that we have to stand against these terrorist organizations together. We have to clear our land of terrorists, to get rid of the organizations that poison our relations. Iraq-Turkey relations are deep. We have shared hundreds years of history in the same geography, we are the community that has made today better. We share the same destiny with the Arabs, Kurds and Turkmen, let’s move with this mindset. Let’s set our days for ourselves and not allow anyone else to do it for us. From here, I send my greetings to my Kurdish brothers in the Regional Government, the Turkmen, the Arabs and all the Iraqi people.
Translated by Layal Shakir, Karwan Faidhi Dri
