ERBIL, Kurdistan Region - Germany is ready to help Syria’s new rulers establish a unified security force that includes Kurdish-led forces, Berlin’s envoy to Damascus said.
“I think the most important is that those groups who are now on the ground, that they sit together to build up a common security structure, which is including HTS and SDF,” Stefan Schneck told Rudaw’s Dilbxwin Dara on Thursday, referring to Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham and the Syrian Democratic Forces.
“I think Germany is also keen to help to establish those contacts who are very important to find a way forward for it,” he said.
A coalition of rebel groups spearheaded by Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) overthrew Bashar al-Assad’s regime on December 8. They have announced the dissolution of armed groups affiliated to it and formed a transitional government that is expected to expire in March.
The HTS has not clashed with the Kurdish-led SDF, but the new officials in Damascus, including de facto leader of the country, Ahmed al-Sharaa, better known as Abu Mohammed al-Jolani, have declared that weapons should only be in the hands of the state and they will not tolerate the existence of any independent armed group.
The SDF are based in the northeast of the country and are partnered with the global coalition against the Islamic State (ISIS).
SDF chief Mazloum Abdi has repeatedly said that they respect the new authority in Damascus and plan to send a delegation to the capital to meet Jolani. The Kurdish enclave in northeast Syria (Rojava) has also decided to raise the new flag of Syria that has been used by the HTS and other anti-Assad groups since the civil war began more than a decade ago.
Abdi told Asharq Al-Awsat in a recent interview that they are willing to merge the SDF into the Syrian new army if both sides agree on a “suitable formula through negotiations.”
PKK ‘should leave’ Rojava
The German envoy also said that the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) should leave Syria.
PKK fighters entered Rojava temporarily in 2014 to help local Kurdish armed groups in the war against ISIS. They have denied any organizational links with the SDF. However, Rojava authorities who are ideologically close to the PKK are under increasing pressure to distance themselves from them.
Schneck said he and Abdi spoke on the phone last week.
"General Mazloum put also publicly some important ideas on the table. leaving of all foreign fighters," he said.
He added that the PKK "is a listed entity and should stop interfering into Syrian matters. And I think very important will be, as I said before, to find a way with other groups like HTS and other groups to national architecture of security for Syria."
Murat Karayilan, a senior PKK commander, on December 16 denied that there are PKK fighters in Rojava. He said that they temporarily entered the country in 2014 and left after defeating ISIS.
Karayilan also said that the display of portraits of jailed PKK leader Abdullah Ocalan in Rojava does not mean that Syrian Kurds are PKK members, but rather are followers of Ocalan’s philosophy.
Rojava authorities have effectively banned PKK flags and symbols. The Democratic Autonomous Administration in North and East Syria (DAANES) “directed all institutions and political parties… to raise only the independence flag of Syria, or the flag of the revolution, the flags of the SDF and the symbols of the autonomous administration,” said Nasraddin Ibrahim, secretary general of the Democratic Party of Kurd in Syria (al-Parti). The directive has yet to be publicized but was issued on December 16.
Germany endorses intra-Kurdish talks
Berlin supports talks to unite Kurdish parties in Syria in preparation for discussions with Damascus, the German envoy said.
Rojava’s feuding ruling and opposition parties have sporadically held talks for over the past decade to try and reach an agreement on power sharing and creating a unified Kurdish stance.
The talks have been stalled for years, but American and French delegations have made steps to resume them, beginning with a recent meeting between Abdi and the opposition parties.
“We are very much supporting it also with activities, with contacts. The inner Kurdish dialogue is fundamental because we have stakeholders which are not included into the societal fabric of northeast Syria,” Schneck said.
He noted that the issue not only concerns the ruling Democratic Union Party (PYD) and the opposition coalition Kurdish National Council (ENKS/KNC), “but also about liberal groupings, other groupings, which have to be heard in those talks."
Germany is not involved in the talks.
“France and US play a special role because they are present with troops on the ground. Germany is not. Therefore, there is a difference in how we engage, but not a difference that we engage. Germany is very much interested in this process, and we remind every partner that the inner Kurdish process is the basis also to then successfully participate in a wider Syrian political path,” he said.
French and American soldiers are on the ground in northeast Syria as part of the war against ISIS.
The following is the transcript of the interview.
Rudaw: How do you see the fall of Bashar al-Assad's regime and the takeover of power by Hay’at Tahrir al-Sham?
Stefan Schneck: Well, on the one hand, we must admit we were all surprised by the swiftness and by the way how the regime of Assad was removed. On the other hand, we've always said that the Assad regime was weak. It was very obvious that economically, like with the budget of two billion, that this is a hollow regime which was only kept alive by Russia and Iran. And I have always said, just wait that Iran or Russia will get weak. That will also topple the regime. So I think we were quite well prepared, and the analysis was in a way right. But the swiftness, and also I must underline, that it was nearly with little victims, that was also a very positive surprise to us, because we are now in a new phase and it has not caused too much humanitarian suffering, which are really good news.
Did you know before that Bashar al-Assad would fall and flee and HTS would take power? Were you aware of that?
Well, we did not expect it at this moment and so quickly. But the Assad regime was a big failure. It was not moving. It was not communicating. And in the end, I think all players were aware that the Assad regime would not build the future. That it toppled so quickly is really again a good news which we were surprised but I think we were aware about the weakness and we acted accordingly always as Germany said that it is not about Damascus, Syria is about the whole of Syria, the northeast, the northwest, the south, and also, of course, Damascus. And I think this is also something which we now have to keep in mind, that it's about the whole of Syria. It's about the northwest, the northeast, the Druze, and of course about Damascus, but also Tartus. When we talk about Syria, we are talking about the whole of Syria and all citizens of Syria.
Have you removed HTS from the terror list?
HTS has been included in the list by the United Nations after several procedures. UN law automatically becomes the national law of countries, not only in Germany, but all over the world, because HTS is an organization listed as a terrorist organization by the United Nations.
The United States has withdrawn its $10 million reward for Jolani's whereabouts. How do you think HTS should be removed from the terror list?
Well, as I tried to explain, it's a UN list, so it's not possible for nations to delist. What the US did was a very good, positive political signal that they lifted the bounty on the leader, [Ahmed al-]Sharaa, which is a good move. So I think this is maybe the way ahead because in the UN, it will be a difficult discussion. We have other players like the Russians, of course, we have at the table. So what is now important is that we look ahead and find ways to cooperate. And it's possible. We can talk to each other, and we can also make plans, exchange ideas on how to develop Syria further. So that is not a problem at this stage.
But isn't it dangerous if you negotiate with an organization that is classified as a terrorist organization by you and the United Nations?
Well, I think the first threat we have to have in mind and we should not forget about is ISIS, which is still present and which is still looking for its possibility for a comeback, for a vacuum. So here I think we have to work close together internationally, but also within Syria, that we don't make the mistake that infights will leave a vacuum for ISIS, which is the foe of everybody, of Sunni, of Alawi, of Druze, and of Kurds alike, that they will come back. So this is one of the major threats which we would like to point to, not to forget, and always have in mind.
Thousands of foreign fighters are within the HTS. How do you see that?
Well, you know, in the end, we will need a well-organized security structure within Syria, which reflects on the one hand the whole of Syria and on the other hand can effectively also care for security for Syria. So we need a process of demobilization and also integration into a new security structure. And this will be one of the major challenges and tasks where Germany is ready also to support the de facto's but also the other stakeholders to get together and construct such a such a new security environment in Syria, which can effectively fight ISIS and also includes all the states in Syria.
In your opinion, will Syria become a democracy?
Well, as you know, democracy is a continuous work. We see it in all democracies, like Germany or the US, that we have to constantly fight for. So I think it's now time to start a process and to try to practice democracy. It's not an easy thing. And I think the first steps were quite positive, but we need something like a national dialogue. We've been talking the last days. I've also tweeted on it. which is based on democratic values. And I must say, inclusion is not something nice, but a fundamental essence of the success of this project of the new Syria, which includes not only all confessional groups, but also, let's say, old and young, men and women, so that everybody is included and can contribute to the fabric of society, and also in the end to economic development, which is in the end one of the major issues and challenges in the future for Syria, besides democracy, which is the basis for such a development.
What will be Germany's role in creating a new Syria?
Well, as you know, we have developed an eight-point plan, which is an offer. We have no plans for Syria. Syrians themselves will plan for Syria. But we can point out where we want to help. So, for example, in transitional justice, we've not only invested in the last years already into initiatives like the Committee for Missing Persons or of Inquiry, where a lot of documents are already collected. But we have also as Germany a history of dictatorships which we had to cope after it. So you remember the end of our socialist system in Eastern Germany after we had tons of documents which had to be organized and then to politically also deal with this because it is always a problem to balance the interests of everybody who is involved in those documents. Can we trust those documents, for example? Or did they lie in those documents? It's a very complicated process. And this is one example where we would like to offer our help, our experience, and I have the feeling that the Syrians are very open to share it and maybe to learn something which is helpful for them.
We saw your video in the form of a selfie in front of the German Embassy in Damascus. When will you open your embassy in Damascus?
Well, opening an embassy is a very complicated stuff with security, but also with practical issues. So a fully fledged embassy with tens of colleagues who are working in all strengths, not only on political, but also in economical or consular affairs, this will really take some time. A political question is, how quick do we want to be there to support the political process? And there, we are already here. We travel, we go into our embassy, we make interviews, we talk to everybody. So I think it's not so much one day to open the embassy. Of course, we will open it and there will be a celebration of it. But to be there, to be present, to help and stretch out the hands to the Syrians. And this is already happening.
What is the best system for governing Syria? Federal, decentralized, centralized, autonomous, or confederal?
Well, you see, here it is a Syrian-led process. The Syrians have to decide on it. Germany can contribute with our experiences. So, as you know, Germany has very different groups. Catholics and Protestants. The people in the north are different from those in the south. So with our experience here, and we shared it, and we are ready to share it, but in the end, each country has to decide for themselves what's the best functioning system. And I'm sure it will take some time, a lot of discussions, a lot of ideas, a lot of , but in the end, the Syrians with an open mind will find their way to democracy and a stable system.
What is your view as a person?
I will not prefer anything for Syria. I want to see a Syria which finds its way as a partner for Germany. And there might be very different ways to it. We have some groups that developed some ideas on it. Just today I tweeted on the Majlis Mudawana Surya. For example, there are some ideas where Sunni and Alawi and Druze and women and men, they sat together to see the principles of a new Syria, of the new Syria. So maybe there are other ideas, and I really recommend to go through those ideas of the last years. There have been a lot of good ideas, and I hope we will find a national dialogue where all those ideas will be discussed, balanced, and then found an idea working for Syria ahead.
How do you see Turkey's intervention in Syria?
So, Turkey, of course, plays a fundamental role for the future of Syria. And we all agreed on the Aqaba process that sovereignty of Syria is a fundamental principle. On the other hand, of course, Turkey has security interests and fighting terrorism is a legitimate secure interest, but it has borders, it has international law and humanitarian law which limits those activities, and therefore we call on all actors to refrain from interfering and derailing the political process which is going on in Syria now.
We learned that you have met with SDF commander-in-chief Mazloum Abdi. what did you talk about?
Well, we were looking for a way forward, and General Mazloum put also publicly some important ideas on the table. leaving of all foreign fighters. PKK [Kurdistan Workers' Party] is a listed entity and should stop interfering into Syrian matters. And I think very important will be, as I said before, to find a way with other groups like HTS and other groups to national architecture of security for Syria.
The Kurds consider you their friends. How will they support the Kurds in the new Syria?
Well, we have a very long history of supporting the whole north, including the northeast and the northwest, through the Syria Recovery Trust Fund. We have made available 360 million through this instrument for agriculture issues for job opportunities, which was quite successful in the last years, which showed also the difference between the regime, which was not ready to work with the international community, and the Northwest and the Northeast, who were ready to cooperate. And then there's a second issue, which is very important, which is the fight against ISIS. So we have projects to take care of about al-Hol. We all know about the thousands, tens of thousands of fighters and also of the families who are there. And we have to find mechanisms to reintegrate those who we can reintegrate. And there's going on a good cooperation also with the Iraqi side and with international partners in order to tackle this problem.
How do you see Turkey's attacks on Rojava?
Well, as I said, I think the most important is that those groups who are now on the ground, that they sit together to build up a common security structure, which is including HTS and SDF. And I think Germany is also keen to help to establish those contacts who are very important to find a way forward for it. National security infrastructure, which includes, of course, PKK fighters who have to leave the country, which is a very clear thing.
Where should they go? Duran Kalkan, a senior PKK official, says that if the northeast Syrian Autonomous Administration asks the PKK guerrillas to leave, they will leave, but where should they go?
I think it should be part of a negotiation process, of a mechanism where all parties included are like HTS, like Turkey, and the SDF, that they find a way how to deal with all these practical problems which such a process would bring. But I think those are solvable. if all partners are really willing to end this year-long or decades-long conflict.
The Kurds are the second largest nation in Syria after the Arabs. If the Kurds demand a federal state for Syrian Kurdistan on the Syrian border, will you support it?
Well, as I said, Syrians have to discuss it themselves. It would be wrong that we from the foreign view would have any ideas prefabricated because in the end, it should be a Syrian-led process. And this is not just hollow words. The Syrian-led process in the UN Security Council Resolution 2254 is still at the core of the whole process. So what I would suggest is also to use the expertise of the UN in this process, which has for years now all over the world gathered experiences in such questions, how to deal with minorities and with histories in certain contexts, in different contexts. And so I would really suggest all partners, HTS, SDF, to also include the UN as a broker and as a fountain of knowledge and experience.
Turkey and the Ankara-backed Syrian National Army continue to threaten Kobane. Have you spoken to Turkey about these threats?
Yes, of course. My minister had just visited Ankara and she had talked with her colleague, Mr. [Hakan] Fidan, exactly those Syrian issues, and that fighting at this very delicate situation could lead into a disaster. So we called on Turkey to get into a process, into a peaceful process. to reach their goals of security, of stopping terrorism by talks with those who are involved, which is including the SDF and which is also including, of course, other groups. And I would say all groups in Syria have an interest here, including HTS.
France and the United States are trying to unite the Kurdish parties in West Kurdistan. Why isn't Germany involved?
Well, as you know, we are very much supporting it also with activities, with contacts. The inner Kurdish dialogue is fundamental because we have stakeholders which are not included into the societal fabric of northeast Syria. So it's not about only PYD and KNC, but also about liberal groupings, other groupings, which have to be heard in those talks. France and US play a special role because they are present with troops on the ground. Germany is not. Therefore, there is a difference in how we engage, but not a difference that we engage. Germany is very much interested in this process, and we remind every partner that the inner Kurdish process is the basis also to then successfully participate in a wider Syrian political path.
If you open an embassy in Damascus, will you consider opening a consulate in the Kurdish areas?
I think this is still too early to plan. We still are struggling with building up an embassy in Damascus and then we will see further.
Thank you very much, Stefan. Diplomats always answer sensitive questions diplomatically.
As a diplomat, I respond diplomatically, but I hope to help show our overall view and initiative for Syria. We sincerely wish the new Syria good success in the political process, development, and economic and social spheres. Thank you very much.
