ERBIL, Kurdistan Region - The head of the Kurdish National Council (ENKS) in Syria, Mohammed Ismail, said federalism remains the preferred system among the Kurds in northeast Syria (Rojava) for resolving the country’s political crisis.
“As a stance, the Kurds view federalism as the best system in Syria to resolve many problems. Many federal states, when they became federalized,” Ismail told Rudaw's Dilbxwin Dara in an interview recorded in Qamishli on August 16 and aired on Wednesday.
Ismail said federalism should not be understood as a path deviating from Syria's unification, arguing that different forms of federalism operate successfully in countries including the United Arab Emirates, Germany, Switzerland and the United States.
“The problem is that they think federalism leads to secession,” he said. “In English, federalism means unity, but these regimes [in Syria] understand it as separation.”
Ismail's remarks come as Mazloum Abdi, commander-in-chief of the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), on Thursday announced the completion of the process to integrate the military, security and administrative structures of the Kurdish autonomous administration into the central government. He announced the dissolution of the SDF on Tuesday.
The SDF and Damascus signed an agreement on January 29, which focuses on the integration, following weeks of intense fighting, with mediations by France and the US.
Ismail said ENKS sometimes employs the term “decentralization” because Syrian and regional actors may not yet be prepared to accept federalism openly.
“Because we don't want to appear as if we are creating a challenge as the opposition, we say ‘decentralization,’” Ismail said, clarifying that “political decentralization is federalism.”
He said the council is prepared to discuss a model applicable to the Syrian context and, if federalism is not currently acceptable, would support expanded local administration.
“The UAE, Germany, Switzerland, and the US each have a distinct federalism. Each country has kept the specificities [of various communities] while enforcing federalism,” he said.
He said Syria must recognize its diverse communities, describing the country as no longer “one-color,” and called for a system that guarantees political and cultural rights for all components.
The following is the full transcript of the interview with Mohammed Ismail:
Rudaw: Mr. Mohammed, how are you? Welcome. There are many issues to discuss.
Mohammed Ismail: You are most welcome. Welcome to Qamishli.
Thank you. How is your health?
Good. It is often said things are good from God’s side, and there are no issues from the side of the servants [people].
It’s good now! It’s good from God and also...
Thank God, it is good.
There are 12 Kurdish members in the Syrian parliament. How many of them are your members?
Of those 12 members, six are members of the Kurdish National Council.
You have six members in the Syrian parliament?
They are members of the Kurdish National Council.
Are they not Kurdistan Democratic Party - Syria (KDP-S) members?
No, they are not specifically PDKS members; they are affiliated with the Kurdish National Council.
But when the parliament was inaugurated, none of these people said they were affiliated with the ENKS or the KDP-S. It was not immediately clear that they entered the parliament under the ENKS.
Both ENKS and KDP-S want to serve their nation and this [Kurdish] cause. They want to do two things: First, to defend the rights of their people and set laws in the interest of the Syrian people and the region – not just for Kurds, but for all components. Second, to build relations with Syrian components and introduce Kurds to Syrians. This is because the Ba'athists planted the idea in the minds of Syrians that Kurds brought a sword to divide the Syrian map and secede. The duty of these MPs is to represent the Syrian people as a whole in order to build good relations and to introduce people to the reality facing the Kurds, their demands, their positions, their existence, their rights, and the specificity of the Kurdish language. They shouldn't just go there and raise the Kurdistan flag in the first session and say, ‘We have arrived.’ I must say, it shouldn't be emotional from the first session; this is not a matter of emotion.
So you are suggesting that it is not a big deal for the Kurdish lawmakers not to identify themselves [as Kurds] there?
No, it is not a big deal.
But can they truly represent Kurds living in Rojava?
The number is small compared to [the Kurdish population] but the government did what it had stated. The number is indeed small, and we cannot say we want ‘all or nothing’; we proceed step by step. We, as the Kurdish National Council and as the Kurdistan Democratic Party - Syria, tried to participate and be included. Not just the six [Kurdish] parliamentarians affiliated with the ENKS but the other six are good people too. We don’t make a distinction between them. Two of them are government-affiliated and are respected Kurds, two are independents and are very good, and two are from civil society and the PYD [Democratic Union Party] - they are respectful as well. Altogether they can offer good things. The main principle is that all 12 [lawmakers] together can build relations with other people to make new friends; that is how they can fulfill their duty.
We are in Qamishli now. Rojava is part of Greater Kurdistan—one of the four divided parts. As ENKS and KDP-S, are you working so that in the future, in official state documents and archives, the name ‘Kurdistan’ will truly be employed?
This is a realistic thing. Our nation has struggled for 69 years without pause for the rights and existence of Kurds. One generation handed this struggle to the next. None of us – including myself – can do anything in relation to this struggle that is not worthy of the sacrifices of this nation; this has been entrusted to us so that our people achieve their legitimate rights within Syrian Kurdistan. It is true that we move step by step – that is how politics works. First, you try to achieve something and then make other demands, but there is no doubt that one day we will not compromise any of our nation’s rights because our rights do not come at the expense of others. If Kurdish rights were at someone else's expense, that would constitute an injustice, and I would say we won't oppress anyone. But when you insist on the legitimate rights and specificity of the Kurds, this is not an injustice; on the contrary, it becomes a source of richness for Syria. When Mr. Nechirvan [Barzani] came, and the Kurdish flag was raised at the Syrian Presidential Palace, what was diminished in Syria? On the contrary, Syria flourished; Syria turned beautiful. The fear created by chauvinistic attitudes persistent in Syrian society is wrong; it is an injustice and an assault on people's rights. The legitimate rights, existence and specificity of Kurds are an asset for Syria. We continue our struggle for the sake of our Kurdish nation in Syria, and the Syrian nation as a whole.
Okay, but you are saying ‘Syrian Kurdistan’ but in official statements of the ENKS and KDP-S, they don’t use the term.
Yes, we do! Our party's name is the Kurdistan Democratic Party - Syria.
True, but do you use ‘Syrian Kurdistan’ frequently in your statements?
Yes. When some people just said ‘Rojava,’ we were upset – very upset.
You don’t use the term ‘Rojava’?
We use ‘Western Kurdistan.’
We also use the term ‘Western Kurdistan’ term.
We also say ‘Western Kurdistan’ but when one says ‘Rojava’ west of which [country] are they referring to? We were really upset when this term was used and we did not accept it. We never used it. It must be ‘Western Kurdistan.’
The KDP-S was founded in 1957 as the first Kurdish party in Syria. Do you expect the inclusion of the word ‘Kurdistan’ in the party name to trigger an issue for you in the future?
It was actually very problematic under the [previous] regime, but resisted. We struggled for a long time and did not give up, regardless of the sacrifice or hardship. As I said, we haven't oppressed anyone; when we talk about our rights and our specificity, we are talking about this region where Kurds live. Today, the Kurdish nation has not been the cause of conflict in Syria or any other country. That fear is the product of narrow Arab nationalism. They also see Arabs. In this new horizon, I believe all ideologies in the Islamic world, except for the Arab racism, will accept Kurds. We are ready to engage in the struggle and get ourselves tolerated. God created us as Kurds, not anyone else; if they have an issue, they should take it up with God.
In your upcoming congress, will you keep the word ‘Kurdistan’ in your party name or not?
We will definitely not change it.
So you will remain as the Kurdistan Democratic Party - Syria?
We will remain so. Indeed, we haven't yet reached a stage [where we have to consider such a change] and we do not know Syria’s trajectory during the transitional period. As the English saying goes, ‘We'll cross that bridge when we get there.’
Haven't you reached the bridge yet?
We haven't reached it. When we do, we will know how to cross.
But in the near future, the fate of Syria and Western Kurdistan will be clear and a new constitution is being drafted. Are you prepared for these developments? For example, have you formed committees in relation to Kurdish rights in the new constitution?
All options have been studied. We have a legal office that provides suggestions to the Council leadership regarding the constitution and even the issue of expanded local governance… [The office advises us] whether to use decentralization or federalism in the next stage. We are ready for it. The key points are the interest of our nation, the principal existence of Kurds in Syria, Kurdish legitimate rights and a genuine partnership in this country. If you recognize the existence of Kurds, you have to recognize Kurdish parties and all that comes with it, too. We have a national party agenda. We want a genuine partnership, rather than a few positions from here and there. This is not a genuine partnership or Kurdish rights, which will only materialize when you are offered positions only because you are a Kurd.
So you are not ready to accept just any government post?
We will accept posts, but not on a personal basis. If they tell me, ‘Come and assume a position as an individual,’ I won't accept it. If there is a post, it must be as a Kurd. Otherwise, we would not gain anything. At the start of the transitional government, they invited us to Damascus as ‘Honorable Gentlemen’ – meaning, as individuals. We didn't go. We said we would come either as ENKS, KDP-S, or as Kurdish representatives. We have struggled all these years for Kurdishness, not for ourselves. I don't need a rank in Damascus as Mohammed Ismail.
So you wanted to be officially invited as the Kurdish Council?
We were invited. Four months later, we were invited as the Kurdish National Council. We were the first Syrian political entity to be invited as a political entity, followed recently by the Turkmen Council. To date, no other Syrian political forces have been invited as political forces except the ENKS and the Turkmen Council.
What kind of system do you want for Syria? At one point you said federalism, another time decentralization. Has your view changed? What kind of Syria do the ENKS and the KDP-S want?
As a stance, the Kurds view federalism as the best system in Syria to resolve many problems. Many federal states, when they became federalized… Look at the UAE; they are all Arabs and function under a federalist system . The problem is they think federalism leads to secession. In English, federalism means unity, but these regimes understand it as separation. This is the best system but it was not implemented. We don't want to appear as if we are posing a challenge as the opposition, we say ‘decentralization.’ There is administrative decentralization and political decentralization; political decentralization is federalism. Every country’s federalism is different. The UAE, Germany, Switzerland, and the US each have a distinct federalism. Each country has kept the specificities [of various communities] while enforcing federalism. We can discuss a [form of] federalism that suits Syria. If the Arab nation, Syrian government or its international situation isn't ready for this yet, we can talk about decentralization or the expansion of local administration decrees. Currently, for instance, a governor is appointed by the President. If 15 people are elected as the members of the Hasaka provincial council, and then these members elect a governor among themselves, this is called decentralization. This means the governor was not elected from the central [government]. Only if locals, rather than the President, elects the governor, this will be called decentralization…We are somewhat optimistic about what is emerging from the interim government – for example, the Kurdish flag and Kurdish rights haven't been an issue yet. Decree 13 was issued; it's not enough, but it’s a step forward compared to the past. I hope we could discuss it together for the interest of this country, our people and the Syrians in general, and for the sake of security and stability in the region. This is something we all agree on.
Mr. Mohammed, when the Assad regime fell, President Masoud Barzani said that the best system for Syria is federalism, but the Kurds of Western Kurdistan will decide their own fate. He supports you, but are you, as the Kurds of Western Kurdistan, united on how your future should be in the new Syria?
We all struggle for our future. My generation's time has passed; I am from the previous generation. We struggle for the future generations.
I’m not just talking about ENKS and KDP-S; I’m referring to all Kurds.
Look, a situation arose – for example, this January in Ashrafiyeh and Sheikh Maqsoud, and the tragedies from Deir Hafir to Til Kochar. Truthfully, Kurdish dignity was broken. With that, many things went downwards. Kurds acted in accordance with the reality on the ground; hate speech among Arabs increased. The hope of going directly to federalism dropped. Because of this, Kurds are forced to become more involved in politics. We have to show Syria we didn't come to divide the country but want our specificities [to be recognized]. We say all [diverse] components exist: Kurds, Turkmens, Syriacs, Assyrians, ideologists, socialists, religious people. Syria must be a place for everyone. Syria is no longer one-color. We are one, we are Syria, but with our differences. If there is a belief in multi-nationalism, multi-partyism, and multi-religiosity, it will create stability in Syrian society. Kurdish education in general is a reality for the future of Syria - reality for our status quo.
Another thing: how is your relationship with the Autonomous Administration?
We don’t have [any relations] with the Administration. From day one, we neither recognized it, nor joined its institutions, nor became partners in its issues. If they have something good, it's on them; if they have corruption or theft, it's also on them.
Do you want the Autonomous Administration to remain or not?
There were four administrations in Syria: the Government, the Salvation Government in Idlib, the Interim Government of the Coalition, and the Autonomous Administration. Perhaps the Salvation Government was slightly better than the others, but the other three - the Coalition, the Autonomous Administration and the Government - failed. Everything became clear: who was honest, who was not and who sought retaliation. This has become something of the past. Regarding the PYD, which is linked to the PKK ideology, we wish for Kurdish unity. We must be together. Whether we like it or not, our differences are great, but we are compelled [to be together]. We in the ENKS have no agenda to destroy Kurdish unity. We want to create unity within a reasonable framework – at least with a pact or a front – so we don't fight each other in the future. Our nation is tired of slogans for the past 15 years, of thinking about who is right and who is in the wrong. We must represent our nation alongside the interim government to achieve good things. The government benefits from our internal conflicts. We risk losing our cause, our time and our youth at the expense of our people.
Regarding the Kurdish language: do you want it to be an official language in Kurdish areas and recognized as so in the Syrian constitution?
Of course. It is one of our primary demands. In the past, we secretly taught the alphabet, and our nation remains committed to that and proud of its language and education. It is a [source of] pride for a nation to sacrifice for [the sake of] its language. We demand not just learning the language, but that instruction would be in Kurdish, and for Kurdish culture, history, literature, and proverbs to be recognized. Since Kurds exist, Kurdish parties and the Kurdish language must therefore exist. Kurdish books must exist…
Will Kurdish education be a main demand in Damascus?
Of course. When the Presidential Decree 13 was issued, we said that this is not enough as we should not only be allowed to learn our language but also receive education in it so Kurds can learn it better and it is enacted as one of the [official] languages of Syria. The Kurdish language enriches Syria’s cultural diversity… Our nation has been struggling [precisely] for this. It is one of our main demands.
Here [in Rojava], all schools and universities are in Kurdish and there are efforts to maintain this. The government has begun recognizing their certificates.
Yes. Even if we disagreed with the [Kurdish] Administration, that doesn't mean we disagree on the Kurdish language. We have many common points; both sides are Kurds. Our demands are the same. We may differ on the methods of struggle, but on the issue of the Kurdish language, literature, and culture, all Kurds are united.
Mr. Mohammed, how is your relationship with Mazloum Abdi, the Commander-in-Chief of the SDF?
We have worked together a lot. We have had many meetings. Sometimes there were heated discussions, but he is a patient person. We were able to meet during times of hardship for our nation; those meetings reduced internal Kurdish conflicts. That was very important and necessary. We reached a point where we often sat together with the Americans, French, British, and with His Excellency, President Masoud Barzani. Those meetings gave comfort to our nation. In the past, our meetings weren't just about conflict; everyone expressed their views and criticisms, and Mr. Mazloum's team was helpful on many fronts.
Will you work together in the future?
The lines of communication between us are always open; they haven't been closed. We want it to stay open, and we are ready for anything that serves the interest of our nation.
Thank you very much. Any final message for the Kurds of Western Kurdistan?
I thank you and the staff of Rudaw who have worked hard, even if our public wasn't always satisfied with some of the terminology used. But thank you, and welcome to Qamishli.
Thank you very much.
